5 ms·

True, but this doesn't change the fact that the statement in the article is factually untrue. Moses preferred roads over all other transport mechanisms, and wa

by sjm-lbm 10y ago

True, but this doesn't change the fact that the statement in the article is factually untrue. Moses preferred roads over all other transport mechanisms, and was shockingly effective in his ability to basically make everyone do what he wanted (even if it involved clearly terrible ideas). He was, though, responsible for many New York state and city parks, and really got into road building as a method to get people out to the new parks he was creating. Now, his definition of "park" as a very developed area with landscaping, sports facilities, playgrounds, etc. with all previous plant life getting killed with a bulldozer is another matter that hasn't really held up over time, but I'm digressing at this point. The Power Broker really is a fascinating read.

tsunamifury 10y ago
And Jane Jacobs spent a significant portion of her life proving his ideals at best short-sighted, and at worst out-right wrong. History remembers Jacobs far more fondly. Death and Life of Great American Cities is now town planning 101.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Death and Life of Great American Cities is now town planning 101. And we're already feeling some of the big problems from that now. Likely more will occur in the next 10-20 years. Jane Jacobs isn't a magical perfect bible for cities -- her ideas (as practiced in every major US city today) are in part responsible for generating an explosion in housing costs, a decrease in the quality of urban transportation, and some major gentrification + displacement of residents. I don't fault her for this -- her ideas were great and relevant for decades -- but urban planners today are blindly following her every word as if it's gospel, and ignoring the many bad side effects her ideas, when left unchecked for so long, are now causing. http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/is-it-time-to-retire-jane-jacobs-vision-city.html http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/is-it-time-to-r...
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Jacobs was right and wrong, just as Moses was. The reality of the situation in NYC, like every other city, was that cheap capital was driving anyone in high density housing with means to the suburbs. Swaths of Brooklyn didn't turn into slum because of Moses -- it was because working class jobs went to Jersey, and ethnic communities of Irish, Italians, Germans and Norweigans went to Jersey and Long Island. The vibrant, connected communities were dead men walking. The same force that made homes cheap: the Federal government, is what created the monster that Moses became in the latter half of his career. Because Moses knew how to get shit done, NYC got most New Deal money. Because Moses could get shit done, NYC got more housing money than anywhere else. Hell, something like 75% of total east coast concrete production went to the NY metro area due to Moses projects. You really owe it to yourself to read "The Power Broker", because the transition of Robert Moses from a progressive reformer to an unstoppable weilder of power, guided by a modern, engineering driven agenda, bears a lot of resemblance to the Silicon Valley titans today. The difference is, Moses was crushed by Nelson Rockefeller, who had a bigger ego, equal political instincts and unlimited money and influence. These guys made Larry Ellison look humble. Not sure what will be able to stop the next Robert Moses like figure.
  - tsunamifury 10y ago
    I will read The Power Broker, thank you for the reco. Most of my interest with this comes from my responsibility to design architectures for ultra-large ecosystems. It is incredibly difficult, as both of these people found out, to define what "healthy" is. On top of that, its almost impossible to predictably seed the right changes to get there. I take each of these leaders thoughts on human principled design very seriously.

by sjm-lbm 10y ago

tsunamifury 10y ago

And Jane Jacobs spent a significant portion of her life proving his ideals at best short-sighted, and at worst out-right wrong. History remembers Jacobs far more fondly. Death and Life of Great American Cities is now town planning 101.

maxsilver 10y ago
> Death and Life of Great American Cities is now town planning 101. And we're already feeling some of the big problems from that now. Likely more will occur in the next 10-20 years. Jane Jacobs isn't a magical perfect bible for cities -- her ideas (as practiced in every major US city today) are in part responsible for generating an explosion in housing costs, a decrease in the quality of urban transportation, and some major gentrification + displacement of residents. I don't fault her for this -- her ideas were great and relevant for decades -- but urban planners today are blindly following her every word as if it's gospel, and ignoring the many bad side effects her ideas, when left unchecked for so long, are now causing. http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/is-it-time-to-retire-jane-jacobs-vision-city.html http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/is-it-time-to-r...
Spooky23 10y ago
Jacobs was right and wrong, just as Moses was. The reality of the situation in NYC, like every other city, was that cheap capital was driving anyone in high density housing with means to the suburbs. Swaths of Brooklyn didn't turn into slum because of Moses -- it was because working class jobs went to Jersey, and ethnic communities of Irish, Italians, Germans and Norweigans went to Jersey and Long Island. The vibrant, connected communities were dead men walking. The same force that made homes cheap: the Federal government, is what created the monster that Moses became in the latter half of his career. Because Moses knew how to get shit done, NYC got most New Deal money. Because Moses could get shit done, NYC got more housing money than anywhere else. Hell, something like 75% of total east coast concrete production went to the NY metro area due to Moses projects. You really owe it to yourself to read "The Power Broker", because the transition of Robert Moses from a progressive reformer to an unstoppable weilder of power, guided by a modern, engineering driven agenda, bears a lot of resemblance to the Silicon Valley titans today. The difference is, Moses was crushed by Nelson Rockefeller, who had a bigger ego, equal political instincts and unlimited money and influence. These guys made Larry Ellison look humble. Not sure what will be able to stop the next Robert Moses like figure.
- tsunamifury 10y ago
  I will read The Power Broker, thank you for the reco. Most of my interest with this comes from my responsibility to design architectures for ultra-large ecosystems. It is incredibly difficult, as both of these people found out, to define what "healthy" is. On top of that, its almost impossible to predictably seed the right changes to get there. I take each of these leaders thoughts on human principled design very seriously.