5 ms·

You don't need to break the strong encryption, when you can break the kneecaps of people using strong encryption.

hx87 10y ago
Breaking kneecaps is expensive though. You can't just set up a ring of roadblocks around a city that kneecaps everyone passing through as a matter of course.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Breaking kneecaps is expensive though. You can't just set up a ring of roadblocks around a city that kneecaps everyone passing through as a matter of course. Once you establish the willingness to break kneecaps, the number of kneecaps you actually need to break is fairly small.
  - hx87 10y ago
    That's true if determining whose kneecaps you need to break is either trivial (e.g. open dissidents and protesters) or can be easily achieved using social engineering (e.g. anonymous print pamphleteers). If doing so is a /technical/ rather than social task, and your technical cryptanalysis isn't up to par, breaking kneecaps is much less powerful of a deterrent because your hit rate will be very low. Breaking kneecaps to deter the use of encryption itself is another matter though.
Aelinsaar 10y ago
Broken kneecaps speak for themselves, "I was tased, and it REALLY hurt! I was terrified and alone in the cold and dark, naked, for hours, I thought I was going to die many times!" is... harder to understand and harder to prove.
alephnil 10y ago
If you break someones kneecaps, you may get the information they have, but you will never get anything more. After that they and their whole network will take precautions, even going as far as never communicating electronically if required. Such bullying may also easily backfire, which limits its use. A broken communication channel in contrast is the gift that keep giving. You can get up to date information that the opponent think is confidential as it happens, and they will not take precautions, and you can continue to use the information against them, giving you the upper hand. This is why NSA was so determined to keep their actions hidden.

hx87 10y ago

Breaking kneecaps is expensive though. You can't just set up a ring of roadblocks around a city that kneecaps everyone passing through as a matter of course.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Breaking kneecaps is expensive though. You can't just set up a ring of roadblocks around a city that kneecaps everyone passing through as a matter of course. Once you establish the willingness to break kneecaps, the number of kneecaps you actually need to break is fairly small.
- hx87 10y ago
  That's true if determining whose kneecaps you need to break is either trivial (e.g. open dissidents and protesters) or can be easily achieved using social engineering (e.g. anonymous print pamphleteers). If doing so is a /technical/ rather than social task, and your technical cryptanalysis isn't up to par, breaking kneecaps is much less powerful of a deterrent because your hit rate will be very low. Breaking kneecaps to deter the use of encryption itself is another matter though.

Aelinsaar 10y ago

Broken kneecaps speak for themselves, "I was tased, and it REALLY hurt! I was terrified and alone in the cold and dark, naked, for hours, I thought I was going to die many times!" is... harder to understand and harder to prove.

alephnil 10y ago

If you break someones kneecaps, you may get the information they have, but you will never get anything more. After that they and their whole network will take precautions, even going as far as never communicating electronically if required. Such bullying may also easily backfire, which limits its use. A broken communication channel in contrast is the gift that keep giving. You can get up to date information that the opponent think is confidential as it happens, and they will not take precautions, and you can continue to use the information against them, giving you the upper hand. This is why NSA was so determined to keep their actions hidden.