5 ms·

Formula for Healthy Sleep by Piotr Wozniak

40 points by mahipal 17y ago

jrockway 17y ago
Thanks for posting. I read this: For example, DSPS students often get a short sleep in the night, wake up early with an alarm clock, go to school where they are semi-conscious and perform poorly, get a solid nap after school and only late in the evening they regain vigor and their full mental powers. DSPS students feel best after midnight when everyone else is asleep and they can focus on learning or other activities (reading, Internet, watching TV, computer games, etc.). And thought, "this article is about me". In an effort to understand my own sleep patterns, I bought a Zeo. After a week or so, I think I've found how things work. If I get a lot of deep sleep, I may not "feel awake" or refreshed, but I can think really well. If I get a lot of REM sleep, I feel great, but may not be in the mood to do anything. With that in mind, I am trying to figure out how to get a good amount of both in the same sleeping session. I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but my plan is to tire myself out (hopefully corresponding to nighttime, just to be in sync with the real world), get a lot of deep sleep, and then when I wake up, check that I've gotten enough REM sleep. If not, back to bed until I feel satisfied. (I am pretty good at getting REM sleep in the morning. Alarm goes off, alarm set for +1:30, and I get about 1:15 worth of REM sleep. Great dreams in this period too. It helps that my work schedule boils down to "try and show up before 2" :) Anyway, I guess I don't have enough data to say anything conclusive, but this is my plan.
RevRal 17y ago
Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome Holy crap, what I do has a name. That's comforting. This "syndrome" comes and goes in cycles, for me. Currently, I'm enjoying regular "day" days. In about a two weeks I'll naturally switch into nocturnal mode, for about three weeks. After these three weeks I'll spend 3-4 four days "fixing" my sleeping schedule.... Is this how it is for other DSPS persons here? I highly value my sleep and vivid dreams, which are very prominent during the DSPS episodes, and I honestly feel more productive and creative in that time. Someone once told me that the best thinking occurs at 3am, which is when the local world around you is most quiet and you can think more clearly. I think she said it was some Buddhist thing, though I can't remember exactly what she said. I always thought that was neat, and concurs with my experience of being able to focus better in the middle of the night.
- Qz 17y ago
  I just found out about this two days ago (another post on here). I don't have a cycle quite like you describe -- I'm generally always in nocturnal mode, except when I make the mistake to try staying up all night (despite telling myself never to do it again no matter what), after which I may end up in a "day" day mode where I get up at 7-8 am like normal people. Except when I do that my brain still doesn't turn on until the afternoon. This thing has been plaguing me all my life, made high school and college a total nightmare except where I could finagle afternoon classes. I mean, personally I love staying up late doing stuff, but it's a pain to try aligning that with other people's schedules.
  - RevRal 17y ago
    In high school, there were a few months where I managed to arrange my sleeping schedule so I slept from when when I got home from school to about 11pm-1am. It worked really well, but my mom didn't like it.
    - Qz 17y ago
      My parents tried the iron fist approach: i had to wake up by a certain time on saturdays and sundays or they would ban me from using the computer. If I missed the bus for sleeping too late, no computer. Needless to say that this didn't work -- I just stayed up until they were asleep and used the computer then. The salient feature of my adolescence was a grueling and protracted war with my parents over school performance vs. computer usage/sleep habits. Makes me wonder how things would have turned out if I'd learned about DSPS when I was maybe 14 or something.
      - realitygrill 17y ago
        Not that much different. My parents didn't believe in DSPS or on a pragmatic level thought it could be cured through training; how could you possibly live a responsible life in the normal world without fixing it?
Qz 17y ago
However, DSPS individuals may have their clocks running periods long enough to find it hard to fit to 24 hours. They also push their clocks ahead by activity late in the evening (the process opposite to the morning reset synchronization). DSPS individuals, when given a chance to sleep when they want, will tend to go to sleep later and later. They will also wake up later and later. This is a perfect description of my dilemma. I've been struggling with school/college for years because of this crap -- now at least I have a reasonable excuse for all the classes I withdrew from to avoid failing.
realitygrill 17y ago
I've known about DSPS for about five years now. Problem is, the world doesn't accommodate you anyway (my time in HS/college was absolutely terrible; I'm just getting out now), so I've resorted to using tricks like light therapy and taking melatonin at night. Even tried the Tim Ferriss method of ice baths when I needed to sleep for finals. My experience is that I can only temporarily hack my sleep to be 'normal' for about two weeks, max, and then it veers off again. Hell, this is probably a big reason I'd like to get into startups and such. I don't think I could survive a normal job schedule and the progressive shift is too unpredictable for most companies. How are you liking the Zeo?
gcb 17y ago
any formula is irrelevant for married people. And funny how this became a me-too thread.
- gcb 17y ago
  maybe ppl ought start adding "we accomodate dsps" in job descriptions at startups here.

40 points by mahipal 17y ago

Thanks for posting. I read this: For example, DSPS students often get a short sleep in the night, wake up early with an alarm clock, go to school where they are semi-conscious and perform poorly, get a solid nap after school and only late in the evening they regain vigor and their full mental powers. DSPS students feel best after midnight when everyone else is asleep and they can focus on learning or other activities (reading, Internet, watching TV, computer games, etc.). And thought, "this article is about me". In an effort to understand my own sleep patterns, I bought a Zeo. After a week or so, I think I've found how things work. If I get a lot of deep sleep, I may not "feel awake" or refreshed, but I can think really well. If I get a lot of REM sleep, I feel great, but may not be in the mood to do anything. With that in mind, I am trying to figure out how to get a good amount of both in the same sleeping session. I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but my plan is to tire myself out (hopefully corresponding to nighttime, just to be in sync with the real world), get a lot of deep sleep, and then when I wake up, check that I've gotten enough REM sleep. If not, back to bed until I feel satisfied. (I am pretty good at getting REM sleep in the morning. Alarm goes off, alarm set for +1:30, and I get about 1:15 worth of REM sleep. Great dreams in this period too. It helps that my work schedule boils down to "try and show up before 2" :) Anyway, I guess I don't have enough data to say anything conclusive, but this is my plan.

RevRal 17y ago

Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome Holy crap, what I do has a name. That's comforting. This "syndrome" comes and goes in cycles, for me. Currently, I'm enjoying regular "day" days. In about a two weeks I'll naturally switch into nocturnal mode, for about three weeks. After these three weeks I'll spend 3-4 four days "fixing" my sleeping schedule.... Is this how it is for other DSPS persons here? I highly value my sleep and vivid dreams, which are very prominent during the DSPS episodes, and I honestly feel more productive and creative in that time. Someone once told me that the best thinking occurs at 3am, which is when the local world around you is most quiet and you can think more clearly. I think she said it was some Buddhist thing, though I can't remember exactly what she said. I always thought that was neat, and concurs with my experience of being able to focus better in the middle of the night.

Qz 17y ago
I just found out about this two days ago (another post on here). I don't have a cycle quite like you describe -- I'm generally always in nocturnal mode, except when I make the mistake to try staying up all night (despite telling myself never to do it again no matter what), after which I may end up in a "day" day mode where I get up at 7-8 am like normal people. Except when I do that my brain still doesn't turn on until the afternoon. This thing has been plaguing me all my life, made high school and college a total nightmare except where I could finagle afternoon classes. I mean, personally I love staying up late doing stuff, but it's a pain to try aligning that with other people's schedules.
- RevRal 17y ago
  In high school, there were a few months where I managed to arrange my sleeping schedule so I slept from when when I got home from school to about 11pm-1am. It worked really well, but my mom didn't like it.
  - Qz 17y ago
    My parents tried the iron fist approach: i had to wake up by a certain time on saturdays and sundays or they would ban me from using the computer. If I missed the bus for sleeping too late, no computer. Needless to say that this didn't work -- I just stayed up until they were asleep and used the computer then. The salient feature of my adolescence was a grueling and protracted war with my parents over school performance vs. computer usage/sleep habits. Makes me wonder how things would have turned out if I'd learned about DSPS when I was maybe 14 or something.
    - realitygrill 17y ago
      Not that much different. My parents didn't believe in DSPS or on a pragmatic level thought it could be cured through training; how could you possibly live a responsible life in the normal world without fixing it?

Qz 17y ago

However, DSPS individuals may have their clocks running periods long enough to find it hard to fit to 24 hours. They also push their clocks ahead by activity late in the evening (the process opposite to the morning reset synchronization). DSPS individuals, when given a chance to sleep when they want, will tend to go to sleep later and later. They will also wake up later and later. This is a perfect description of my dilemma. I've been struggling with school/college for years because of this crap -- now at least I have a reasonable excuse for all the classes I withdrew from to avoid failing.

realitygrill 17y ago

I've known about DSPS for about five years now. Problem is, the world doesn't accommodate you anyway (my time in HS/college was absolutely terrible; I'm just getting out now), so I've resorted to using tricks like light therapy and taking melatonin at night. Even tried the Tim Ferriss method of ice baths when I needed to sleep for finals. My experience is that I can only temporarily hack my sleep to be 'normal' for about two weeks, max, and then it veers off again. Hell, this is probably a big reason I'd like to get into startups and such. I don't think I could survive a normal job schedule and the progressive shift is too unpredictable for most companies. How are you liking the Zeo?

gcb 17y ago

any formula is irrelevant for married people. And funny how this became a me-too thread.

gcb 17y ago
maybe ppl ought start adding "we accomodate dsps" in job descriptions at startups here.