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I suspect your comment will be met harshly here, but I agree for at least a subset of users. If you regularly read HN, you probably can see the clear downsides

I suspect your comment will be met harshly here, but I agree for at least a subset of users. If you regularly read HN, you probably can see the clear downsides of the so-called 'walled garden' approach. I can too. Then I have a 10-minute conversation trying to help my mother-in-law with whatever Best-buy recommended cheap PC she purchased 2 years ago, and I am convinced that she needs the walled garden.

Ntrails 10y ago
There was a pop up which said that there was a virus and I needed to click ok to get it removed I swear to God I'd put adblock on that laptop to reduce this risk. Not to mention there must have been multiple click throughs for the different hurdles to install the malware. This is not a problem I envisage happening on Mums iPad though, and there's a lot to be said for that piece of mind
mr_overalls 10y ago
I'm definitely an advocate of open source myself, and I never thought I'd be considering the other side's arguments. It's just that I see major data/security breaches increasing in the news, along with stories (like this one) about cyber-offensive capabilities growing more and more powerful. In the InfoSec world, it seems like anything is hackable, and the balance of power firmly lies with offensive tools. I'm just scratching my head about what the appropriate defensive strategies are going to be, given that Chinese and Russian state-sponsored hackers are known to attack civilian targets. I'm not sure how we're supposed to secure our government, financial, and tech companies against these players. For all of their known (and probable) capabilities, our three-letter agencies don't seem too concerned about encouraging defensive technologies and securing domestic networks.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  What do you mean "attack"? Is there some specific harm being done that you want to protect against? Breach of defenses isn't itself an attack. A foreign agent inside your castle isn't an attacker until they start stabbing people, right? I'm not personally worried about what Chinese and Russian hackers know about me, because none of that information is particularly useful for taking valuables from me. I am curious what your experience is, just so I can understand the context of your concern.
  - mr_overalls 10y ago
    I'm concerned about industrial espionage: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/19/china-hacking-us-companies-for-secrets-despite-cyber-pact-.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/19/china-hacking-us-companies-fo... Also at personal risk is anyone with a US security clearance: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/09/hack-of-security-clearance-system-affected-21-5-million-people-federal-authorities-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/0...
  - dr_hooo 10y ago
    How do you assume that the information isn't useful? That implies that all your valuables are fully isolated from the digital world - really? I really have trouble understanding the "I have nothing to hide" attitude. What's the difference to saying "there is this guy always standing in the corner of my living room, but I'll just assume he's benign..."
    - erikpukinskis 10y ago
      Well I would notice if something valuable to me is taken.
lbearl 10y ago
I know exactly what you are talking about. I'm just really afraid of what the knock-on effects are going to be of starting kids out in walled gardens. I wouldn't be an engineer today if it wasn't for the fact that it was possible for me to play with various languages, or start distro hopping in high school with a 433Mhz PC. These walled gardens make it easy to keep everything working, but come at a high cost of actually learning what the device does.

Ntrails 10y ago

There was a pop up which said that there was a virus and I needed to click ok to get it removed I swear to God I'd put adblock on that laptop to reduce this risk. Not to mention there must have been multiple click throughs for the different hurdles to install the malware. This is not a problem I envisage happening on Mums iPad though, and there's a lot to be said for that piece of mind

mr_overalls 10y ago

I'm definitely an advocate of open source myself, and I never thought I'd be considering the other side's arguments. It's just that I see major data/security breaches increasing in the news, along with stories (like this one) about cyber-offensive capabilities growing more and more powerful. In the InfoSec world, it seems like anything is hackable, and the balance of power firmly lies with offensive tools. I'm just scratching my head about what the appropriate defensive strategies are going to be, given that Chinese and Russian state-sponsored hackers are known to attack civilian targets. I'm not sure how we're supposed to secure our government, financial, and tech companies against these players. For all of their known (and probable) capabilities, our three-letter agencies don't seem too concerned about encouraging defensive technologies and securing domestic networks.

erikpukinskis 10y ago
What do you mean "attack"? Is there some specific harm being done that you want to protect against? Breach of defenses isn't itself an attack. A foreign agent inside your castle isn't an attacker until they start stabbing people, right? I'm not personally worried about what Chinese and Russian hackers know about me, because none of that information is particularly useful for taking valuables from me. I am curious what your experience is, just so I can understand the context of your concern.
- mr_overalls 10y ago
  I'm concerned about industrial espionage: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/19/china-hacking-us-companies-for-secrets-despite-cyber-pact-.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/19/china-hacking-us-companies-fo... Also at personal risk is anyone with a US security clearance: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/09/hack-of-security-clearance-system-affected-21-5-million-people-federal-authorities-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/0...
- dr_hooo 10y ago
  How do you assume that the information isn't useful? That implies that all your valuables are fully isolated from the digital world - really? I really have trouble understanding the "I have nothing to hide" attitude. What's the difference to saying "there is this guy always standing in the corner of my living room, but I'll just assume he's benign..."
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    Well I would notice if something valuable to me is taken.

lbearl 10y ago

I know exactly what you are talking about. I'm just really afraid of what the knock-on effects are going to be of starting kids out in walled gardens. I wouldn't be an engineer today if it wasn't for the fact that it was possible for me to play with various languages, or start distro hopping in high school with a 433Mhz PC. These walled gardens make it easy to keep everything working, but come at a high cost of actually learning what the device does.