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I totally agree. Being a developer is one of the best careers you can have right now. Well paid and high in demand everywhere in the world, very little "soul cr

I totally agree. Being a developer is one of the best careers you can have right now. Well paid and high in demand everywhere in the world, very little "soul crushing" (and can even be very fulfilling) compared to most jobs and you can even get a job where you work from home, anywhere you want, with flexible time etc. What other jobs exist out there like it? And if your only complaint is "well my employer makes millions off me and I get only get paid $GOOD_SALARY!", well then go and start your own business! It's, again, the easiest, cheapest and highest possible return of any business you can start in the world today, and it only requires your time. If you don't want do do it (because you'd rather have a stable job, or you don't want or can't risk your savings, etc) at the very least, don't complain you should be making an even better salary. Keep in mind I don't want to imply "just be contempt with whatever salary you have" or "never seek a better job or salary", but by all means, don't complain that "programmers are underpaid" in general, because I think that's just plain not true if we compare all aspects of the job with any job out there. It's pretty much a dream time in history to be a developer right now.

greyman 10y ago
As I understood the article, the gist of the issue is, that besides salary, many/some programmers could also have another form(s) of compensation, so why not negotiate for it?
siculars 10y ago
s/contempt/content
vonmoltke 10y ago
> Well paid and high in demand everywhere in the world, very little "soul crushing" (and can even be very fulfilling) compared to most jobs and you can even get a job where you work from home, anywhere you want, with flexible time etc. Assuming you like and are good at a specialty that is in demand, and can convince someone else of that. As someone who does not like web or enterprise CRUD development I don't feel very in-demand, nor do I feel like I can get one of those sweet working arrangements[1] that get discussed here. I have spent the past couple of years wrestling with whether to keep trying to do what I want to do (real-time embedded systems) and be "underpaid" doing it or do something I am good at but really don't like (Java backend systems/"big data") in order to make more money. I think the latter is going to win by default, since I have been out of the embedded game too long at this point. [1] Not to say my current arrangement isn't better than average with respect to flexibility, vacation, benefits, and such. I think the average HNer would probably consider my fringe benefits kinda crappy.
lastyearman 10y ago
In my opinion employers should listen to those complaints. Most likely the only way to increase my salary would be to swap jobs, which I'd rather not do, and I don't see it being good for my employer either. If there are millions to be made from programmers then must it not follow that programmers are actually underpaid (or that the services are over priced)?

greyman 10y ago

As I understood the article, the gist of the issue is, that besides salary, many/some programmers could also have another form(s) of compensation, so why not negotiate for it?

siculars 10y ago

s/contempt/content

vonmoltke 10y ago

> Well paid and high in demand everywhere in the world, very little "soul crushing" (and can even be very fulfilling) compared to most jobs and you can even get a job where you work from home, anywhere you want, with flexible time etc. Assuming you like and are good at a specialty that is in demand, and can convince someone else of that. As someone who does not like web or enterprise CRUD development I don't feel very in-demand, nor do I feel like I can get one of those sweet working arrangements[1] that get discussed here. I have spent the past couple of years wrestling with whether to keep trying to do what I want to do (real-time embedded systems) and be "underpaid" doing it or do something I am good at but really don't like (Java backend systems/"big data") in order to make more money. I think the latter is going to win by default, since I have been out of the embedded game too long at this point. [1] Not to say my current arrangement isn't better than average with respect to flexibility, vacation, benefits, and such. I think the average HNer would probably consider my fringe benefits kinda crappy.

lastyearman 10y ago

In my opinion employers should listen to those complaints. Most likely the only way to increase my salary would be to swap jobs, which I'd rather not do, and I don't see it being good for my employer either. If there are millions to be made from programmers then must it not follow that programmers are actually underpaid (or that the services are over priced)?