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> Some students in masters programs, says Allen Foresta, Senior Librarian at Columbia University's graduate Teachers College, “managed to get through undergradu

by ashark 10y ago

> Some students in masters programs, says Allen Foresta, Senior Librarian at Columbia University's graduate Teachers College, “managed to get through undergraduate without really being required to use a library, which is kind of astonishing to me.” Thanks to Google Books, the good ol' high school research paper standby of "write from bad sources (Wikipedia, these days, or from a single decent source) then find good ones for the stuff you wrote until you hit the minimum reference count" also works for (at least most) undergraduate papers. You just need search and the free samples—full book and leaving your room not required. Bonus: it's also easier to get generated citations (for the real books, not as web resources) than manually entering the data from physical books.

btgeekboy 10y ago
You don't even need to get that sketchy. With services like ACM providing their research libraries at student prices, you can have all sorts of papers easily downloaded from the comfort of your dorm/whatever. Personally, I only really went to the library when I was doing Master's research, and there were a few specific books I needed on graph theory. Went in, got them, and that was it. Everything else I was able to easily and legally do online.
- maccard 10y ago
  When I needed books from my Uni library, I normally had to request them from stacks, so I didn't even need to go into the library to get them. I'd just order them the night before, they get delivered at 8am, and I pick them up at the library front desk.
  - sedachv 10y ago
    > When I needed books from my Uni library, I normally had to request them from stacks, so I didn't even need to go into the library to get them. Is that for reserved course items? A library where you had to request everything would be completely useless. In my experience you miss out on 80% of interesting books if you do not browse the shelves. Amazon, Worldcat, etc are useless for discovery, particularly for anything published before 1980. Google Books is a little better. Frequently when visiting a new city or town I will drop in on a library to browse the mathematics shelves and take note of any interesting books I should read later. Used bookstores are also interesting but most have no math books.
- jbpetersen 10y ago
  Out of curiosity, what were you working on to do with graph theory?
  - btgeekboy 10y ago
    I never actually finished my project; life got in the way. However, I was learning about applications of pathfinding. My eventual goal was to define and implement an algorithm to find the best routes for a flight plan, taking into account time, fuel burn, etc.
veddox 10y ago
We live in a society where almost everybody's first instinct when looking up facts is: "Google it". And the second: "Check Wikipedia". It really isn't astonishing that students have the same attitude when they first arrive, and I think it's the university's job to get them to change that habit. (Of course there will always be those too lazy to do anything but check Wikipedia, but most can be taught.)
douche 10y ago
Sprinkle JSTOR on top, and you've got 90% of my undergraduate history papers. We really need to get onto better digitizing and indexing of libraries.
- minikites 10y ago
  Digitizing and indexing only solves part of the problem. The real problem is the lack of search skills, even among people who think they know how to search for things. There is also the knowledge that some databases are better for certain subjects because there isn't one "omni-database" that has a representative amount from all subject areas.
  - Tomte 10y ago
    I can highly recommend "The Oxford Guide of Library Research" by Thomas Mann. I had no idea how many different ways to research a library there are. Or how many of them are not available in my local university library, because the research interfaces have been dumbed down. Mann is not a fan of the Internet and its reduction to a single search box.
Kenji 10y ago
I went through years of undergrad without using the library once. It's really not much of a mystery how I did it. I bought a lot of books that were good, our Uni library gives us access to something like 100'000 books in PDF (well, I guess you could call that a 'visit' to the library) and the rest can be downloaded from the internet. Besides, lots of lectures had very good handouts and ain't nobody got time to read a lot of technical books.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Well, I finished my studies without borrowing a single (studying-related) thing from a library. We didn't have time to read whole books anyway, due to the way the curriculum is structured, and whatever textbook I needed to consult, I had available as a bootleg PDF on an FTP server we maintained for ourselves and those who'll come after us.

by ashark 10y ago

btgeekboy 10y ago

You don't even need to get that sketchy. With services like ACM providing their research libraries at student prices, you can have all sorts of papers easily downloaded from the comfort of your dorm/whatever. Personally, I only really went to the library when I was doing Master's research, and there were a few specific books I needed on graph theory. Went in, got them, and that was it. Everything else I was able to easily and legally do online.

maccard 10y ago
When I needed books from my Uni library, I normally had to request them from stacks, so I didn't even need to go into the library to get them. I'd just order them the night before, they get delivered at 8am, and I pick them up at the library front desk.
- sedachv 10y ago
  > When I needed books from my Uni library, I normally had to request them from stacks, so I didn't even need to go into the library to get them. Is that for reserved course items? A library where you had to request everything would be completely useless. In my experience you miss out on 80% of interesting books if you do not browse the shelves. Amazon, Worldcat, etc are useless for discovery, particularly for anything published before 1980. Google Books is a little better. Frequently when visiting a new city or town I will drop in on a library to browse the mathematics shelves and take note of any interesting books I should read later. Used bookstores are also interesting but most have no math books.
jbpetersen 10y ago
Out of curiosity, what were you working on to do with graph theory?
- btgeekboy 10y ago
  I never actually finished my project; life got in the way. However, I was learning about applications of pathfinding. My eventual goal was to define and implement an algorithm to find the best routes for a flight plan, taking into account time, fuel burn, etc.

veddox 10y ago

We live in a society where almost everybody's first instinct when looking up facts is: "Google it". And the second: "Check Wikipedia". It really isn't astonishing that students have the same attitude when they first arrive, and I think it's the university's job to get them to change that habit. (Of course there will always be those too lazy to do anything but check Wikipedia, but most can be taught.)

douche 10y ago

Sprinkle JSTOR on top, and you've got 90% of my undergraduate history papers. We really need to get onto better digitizing and indexing of libraries.

minikites 10y ago
Digitizing and indexing only solves part of the problem. The real problem is the lack of search skills, even among people who think they know how to search for things. There is also the knowledge that some databases are better for certain subjects because there isn't one "omni-database" that has a representative amount from all subject areas.
- Tomte 10y ago
  I can highly recommend "The Oxford Guide of Library Research" by Thomas Mann. I had no idea how many different ways to research a library there are. Or how many of them are not available in my local university library, because the research interfaces have been dumbed down. Mann is not a fan of the Internet and its reduction to a single search box.

Kenji 10y ago

I went through years of undergrad without using the library once. It's really not much of a mystery how I did it. I bought a lot of books that were good, our Uni library gives us access to something like 100'000 books in PDF (well, I guess you could call that a 'visit' to the library) and the rest can be downloaded from the internet. Besides, lots of lectures had very good handouts and ain't nobody got time to read a lot of technical books.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Well, I finished my studies without borrowing a single (studying-related) thing from a library. We didn't have time to read whole books anyway, due to the way the curriculum is structured, and whatever textbook I needed to consult, I had available as a bootleg PDF on an FTP server we maintained for ourselves and those who'll come after us.