4 ms·

I cringe every time I see begs the question in its modern usage. Please don't take this as a personal attack. Just sayin'.

nerdponx 10y ago
I feel your pain, but I also don't know better way to express what I just expressed
- abduhl 10y ago
  "Raises the question"
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    "begs" as in "begs an answer to", which is the common usage. The formal logic usage of that term always seemed bizarre to me.
    - abduhl 10y ago
      I am aware of the common usage. The correct phrase is "raises the question" when used in the common usage way. If you want to use begs as in "begs an answer to" then use "begs an answer to".
      - Karunamon 10y ago
        Ah, a linguistic prescriptivist! :)
      - TickleSteve 10y ago
        Common usage in the US != common usage anywhere else.
      - aninhumer 10y ago
        Or, if you want to say "assuming the conclusion" say "assuming the conclusion", rather than demanding that the nonsensical common usage of "begs the question" stand aside for your preferred nonsensical usage, based some dubious notion of "correctness".
    - waterhouse 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question "The term "begging the question", as this is usually phrased, originated in the 16th century as a mistranslation of the Latin petitio principii, which actually translates as "assuming the initial point"." Citation: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290 "[Aristotle] specified thirteen fallacies, one of which ... is "assuming the original conclusion". This amounts to arguing that "P, therefore P" ... Some medieval translator decided to translate Aristotle's "assuming the conclusion" into petitio principii. In classical Latin, petitio meant "... a request, petition". But in post-classical Latin petitio was also used to mean "a postulate" ... And principium meant "a beginning, commencement, origin" ... "the original point". From the 14th century onwards, many writers in English used the Latin term to discuss this rhetorical technique ... But starting in the late 16th century, the English phrase "to beg the question" began to sneak into use as an vulgar alternative to petitio principii." A translation from Greek into a Latin phrase, using a word with multiple meanings (and choosing a meaning that is now rather obscure, especially to English speakers who know the word "petition"); and some who translated it into English chose the more common meaning and got the wrong phrase, quite distinct from the original. Anyone who says that "begging the question" means "assuming the conclusion" is clearly, clearly wrong. :-)
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
LastZactionHero 10y ago
Thank you.
will_brown 10y ago
I personally like the diversity of expressive thought myself, and you should embrace it too, probably as it is, today's youth might laugh at your use of "just sayin'" and prefer you simply communicate using emojis. It would be pretty damn boring if we all spoke the same.

nerdponx 10y ago

I feel your pain, but I also don't know better way to express what I just expressed

abduhl 10y ago
"Raises the question"
- Karunamon 10y ago
  "begs" as in "begs an answer to", which is the common usage. The formal logic usage of that term always seemed bizarre to me.
  - abduhl 10y ago
    I am aware of the common usage. The correct phrase is "raises the question" when used in the common usage way. If you want to use begs as in "begs an answer to" then use "begs an answer to".
    - Karunamon 10y ago
      Ah, a linguistic prescriptivist! :)
    - TickleSteve 10y ago
      Common usage in the US != common usage anywhere else.
    - aninhumer 10y ago
      Or, if you want to say "assuming the conclusion" say "assuming the conclusion", rather than demanding that the nonsensical common usage of "begs the question" stand aside for your preferred nonsensical usage, based some dubious notion of "correctness".
  - waterhouse 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question "The term "begging the question", as this is usually phrased, originated in the 16th century as a mistranslation of the Latin petitio principii, which actually translates as "assuming the initial point"." Citation: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290 "[Aristotle] specified thirteen fallacies, one of which ... is "assuming the original conclusion". This amounts to arguing that "P, therefore P" ... Some medieval translator decided to translate Aristotle's "assuming the conclusion" into petitio principii. In classical Latin, petitio meant "... a request, petition". But in post-classical Latin petitio was also used to mean "a postulate" ... And principium meant "a beginning, commencement, origin" ... "the original point". From the 14th century onwards, many writers in English used the Latin term to discuss this rhetorical technique ... But starting in the late 16th century, the English phrase "to beg the question" began to sneak into use as an vulgar alternative to petitio principii." A translation from Greek into a Latin phrase, using a word with multiple meanings (and choosing a meaning that is now rather obscure, especially to English speakers who know the word "petition"); and some who translated it into English chose the more common meaning and got the wrong phrase, quite distinct from the original. Anyone who says that "begging the question" means "assuming the conclusion" is clearly, clearly wrong. :-)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

LastZactionHero 10y ago

Thank you.

will_brown 10y ago

I personally like the diversity of expressive thought myself, and you should embrace it too, probably as it is, today's youth might laugh at your use of "just sayin'" and prefer you simply communicate using emojis. It would be pretty damn boring if we all spoke the same.