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Perhaps it's about expecting to have program locality? I.e. you download a zip file, you unpack it into a directory, and here is your entire program. Right the

by Artlav 10y ago

Perhaps it's about expecting to have program locality? I.e. you download a zip file, you unpack it into a directory, and here is your entire program. Right there, in that directory, not splattered around the filesystem by the package manager. That's the way it's done on Windows, anyway.

johncolanduoni 10y ago
Perhaps for the newer Windows platforms (e.g. UWP) but Win32 installers have definitely been known to put things all over your system.
- Artlav 10y ago
  Yeah, that's the reason why i have a "got installer? not worth using" pre-filter for Windows software. Not sure how things are these days, but i'm talking about the Win 9x to Win 7 days.
  - yiyus 10y ago
    But that is not a packaging system. You can put binaries in zip files in Linux systems too. And I don't understand what kind of software you used with that pre-filter. You cannot even install drivers then.
    - Artlav 10y ago
      "Pre filter" is kind of like a rule of thumb. There are exceptions for stuff like drivers and for big corporate programs that just don't come in other ways. But a lot of smaller programs are available in the zip form, or have alternatives that are. In short, i prefer portable programs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_application
  - RaleyField 10y ago
    I'd have opposite filter. Did you correct permissions for folder where you unzipped/placed executables so that it couldn't overwrite itself? Correctly installed software in program files folder would be protected from being overwritten without administrator privileges.
icebraining 10y ago
No, Windows has %ProgramFiles%, %CommonProgramFiles% and the registry as officially supported places to put application data.
SwellJoe 10y ago
Huh. I didn't even consider that. I guess it's been a very long time since I've used systems where that was a thing that happened (and Windows isn't such a system, realistically speaking; Program Files, registry, etc.). But, I do remember coming from Amiga back in 1995, or so, and thinking UNIX/Linux was crazy with things spread all over the place. Amiga did work that way, generally speaking (though it looked a little UNIX-y at the system layer, too). How was I supposed to find anything? But, the package manager knows where everything is so I don't have to (and there's consistency across systems...system python/perl/ruby/bash is always in /usr/bin). If that's why "it's a mess", then I have to argue that it only looks like a mess, until you get to know it a little better. Package management is the single biggest reason I have never been able to seriously use any other desktop OS over the past 20 years, or so (I have a Windows partition for games and audio, and I've had a Hackintosh a couple of times for tinkering with iOS dev, but Linux is where I get work done).
chriswarbo 10y ago
Last time I used Windows very little would work unless it was a) installed and b) installed to "C:\Program Files" (some software, can't remember which, would let you choose a different location, but wouldn't work). It crushed my dreams of a small Windows partition + a large data/programs partition :(

by Artlav 10y ago

johncolanduoni 10y ago

Perhaps for the newer Windows platforms (e.g. UWP) but Win32 installers have definitely been known to put things all over your system.

Artlav 10y ago
Yeah, that's the reason why i have a "got installer? not worth using" pre-filter for Windows software. Not sure how things are these days, but i'm talking about the Win 9x to Win 7 days.
- yiyus 10y ago
  But that is not a packaging system. You can put binaries in zip files in Linux systems too. And I don't understand what kind of software you used with that pre-filter. You cannot even install drivers then.
  - Artlav 10y ago
    "Pre filter" is kind of like a rule of thumb. There are exceptions for stuff like drivers and for big corporate programs that just don't come in other ways. But a lot of smaller programs are available in the zip form, or have alternatives that are. In short, i prefer portable programs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_application
- RaleyField 10y ago
  I'd have opposite filter. Did you correct permissions for folder where you unzipped/placed executables so that it couldn't overwrite itself? Correctly installed software in program files folder would be protected from being overwritten without administrator privileges.

icebraining 10y ago

No, Windows has %ProgramFiles%, %CommonProgramFiles% and the registry as officially supported places to put application data.

SwellJoe 10y ago

Huh. I didn't even consider that. I guess it's been a very long time since I've used systems where that was a thing that happened (and Windows isn't such a system, realistically speaking; Program Files, registry, etc.). But, I do remember coming from Amiga back in 1995, or so, and thinking UNIX/Linux was crazy with things spread all over the place. Amiga did work that way, generally speaking (though it looked a little UNIX-y at the system layer, too). How was I supposed to find anything? But, the package manager knows where everything is so I don't have to (and there's consistency across systems...system python/perl/ruby/bash is always in /usr/bin). If that's why "it's a mess", then I have to argue that it only looks like a mess, until you get to know it a little better. Package management is the single biggest reason I have never been able to seriously use any other desktop OS over the past 20 years, or so (I have a Windows partition for games and audio, and I've had a Hackintosh a couple of times for tinkering with iOS dev, but Linux is where I get work done).

chriswarbo 10y ago

Last time I used Windows very little would work unless it was a) installed and b) installed to "C:\Program Files" (some software, can't remember which, would let you choose a different location, but wouldn't work). It crushed my dreams of a small Windows partition + a large data/programs partition :(