4 ms·

The last paragraph indicates the precise problem with this policy - it isn't adhering to the terms of the free trade agreements that Canada has signed - both NA

The last paragraph indicates the precise problem with this policy - it isn't adhering to the terms of the free trade agreements that Canada has signed - both NAFTA and the "China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement" require that offshore investors be treated the same as onshore. The CFIPPA [1] is clear on the subject: 1. Each Contracting Party shall accord to investors of the other Contracting Party treatment no less favourable than that it accords, in like circumstances, to its own investors with respect to the expansion, management, conduct, operation and sale or other disposition of investments in its territory. Perhaps the claim is that the initial purchase of the asset is what's being taxed, which might be seen as exempt? [1] http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/fipa-apie/china-text-chine.aspx?lang=eng http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-comm...

pesfandiar 10y ago
I don't know much about the legal aspects of international agreements like that, but is real estate considered an investment vehicle like e.g. bonds and stocks? You'd think there should be some exceptions, since real estate is enabling local communities, and you know, provides shelter for people to live in.
- skylan_q 10y ago
  Vancouver is tight and they aren't building/aren't allowing more building in the immediate area. Housing is for people to live in, but far too many have been speculating.
  - EnFinlay 10y ago
    There is a lot of building happening in Vancouver right now, mainly housing blocks being turned into high rises.
SmellTheGlove 10y ago
Forgive me because I don't know how to blockquote here, this is the definition of "investment" from the agreement you linked: 1. “investment” means: (a) an enterprise; (b) shares, stocks and other forms of equity participation in an enterprise; (c) bonds, debentures, and other debt instruments of an enterprise; (d) a loan to an enterprise (i) where the enterprise is an affiliate of the investor, or (ii) where the original maturity of the loan is at least three years; (e) notwithstanding sub-paragraphs (c) and (d) above, a loan to or debt security issued by a financial institution is an investment only where the loan or debt security is treated as regulatory capital by the Contracting Party in whose territory the financial institution is located; (f) an interest in an enterprise that entitles the owner to share in the income or profits of the enterprise; (g) an interest in an enterprise that entitles the owner to share in the assets of that enterprise on dissolution; (h) interests arising from the commitment of capital or other resources in the territory of a Contracting Party to economic activity in such territory, such as under (i) contracts involving the presence of an investor’s property in the territory of the Contracting Party, including turnkey or construction contracts, or concessions to search for and extract oil and other natural resources, or (ii) contracts where remuneration depends substantially on the production, revenue or profits of an enterprise; (i) intellectual property rights; and (j) any other tangible or intangible, moveable or immovable, property and related property rights acquired or used for business purposes; but “investment” does not mean: (k) claims to money that arise solely from (i) commercial contracts for the sale of goods or services, or (ii) the extension of credit in connection with a commercial transaction, such as trade financing, other than a loan covered by sub-paragraph (d); or (l) any other claims to money, that do not involve the kinds of interests set out in sub-paragraphs (a) to (j); I'm not an expert on Canadian law, but in the US at least, that definition does not appear to me as though it would cover real property. Property itself refers to chattel, and real property would need to be expressly included. So I'm not sure that they have a problem, as real property doesn't fall under the ordinary definition of an investment, and it's not encompassed in the agreement definition of investment above. Disclaimer: I'm not your lawyer. I know nothing about Canadian law. I am a dog pretending to be a lawyer on the internet.
- telotortium 10y ago
hackerboos 10y ago
I would expect China not to pursue damages considering that the Chinese residents laundering money in Canada are breaking China's capital controls in the process.
- jpollock 10y ago
  Americans tend to be more litigious, and NAFTA is even more clear than the Chinese agreement [1], mentioning establishment and acquisition of investments. 1. Each Party shall accord to investors of another Party treatment no less favorable than that it accords, in like circumstances, to its own investors with respect to the establishment, acquisition, expansion, management, conduct, operation, and sale or other disposition of investments. 2. Each Party shall accord to investments of investors of another Party treatment no less favorable than that it accords, in like circumstances, to investments of its own investors with respect to the establishment, acquisition, expansion, management, conduct, operation, and sale or other disposition of investments. Canada has carved out some exemptions, specifically around ocean front property [2], probably intended for the control of ports. [1] http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/nafta-alena/text-texte/11.aspx?lang=eng http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-comm... [2] http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/anx2cda.asp http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/anx2cda.asp

pesfandiar 10y ago

I don't know much about the legal aspects of international agreements like that, but is real estate considered an investment vehicle like e.g. bonds and stocks? You'd think there should be some exceptions, since real estate is enabling local communities, and you know, provides shelter for people to live in.

skylan_q 10y ago
Vancouver is tight and they aren't building/aren't allowing more building in the immediate area. Housing is for people to live in, but far too many have been speculating.
- EnFinlay 10y ago
  There is a lot of building happening in Vancouver right now, mainly housing blocks being turned into high rises.

SmellTheGlove 10y ago

Forgive me because I don't know how to blockquote here, this is the definition of "investment" from the agreement you linked: 1. “investment” means: (a) an enterprise; (b) shares, stocks and other forms of equity participation in an enterprise; (c) bonds, debentures, and other debt instruments of an enterprise; (d) a loan to an enterprise (i) where the enterprise is an affiliate of the investor, or (ii) where the original maturity of the loan is at least three years; (e) notwithstanding sub-paragraphs (c) and (d) above, a loan to or debt security issued by a financial institution is an investment only where the loan or debt security is treated as regulatory capital by the Contracting Party in whose territory the financial institution is located; (f) an interest in an enterprise that entitles the owner to share in the income or profits of the enterprise; (g) an interest in an enterprise that entitles the owner to share in the assets of that enterprise on dissolution; (h) interests arising from the commitment of capital or other resources in the territory of a Contracting Party to economic activity in such territory, such as under (i) contracts involving the presence of an investor’s property in the territory of the Contracting Party, including turnkey or construction contracts, or concessions to search for and extract oil and other natural resources, or (ii) contracts where remuneration depends substantially on the production, revenue or profits of an enterprise; (i) intellectual property rights; and (j) any other tangible or intangible, moveable or immovable, property and related property rights acquired or used for business purposes; but “investment” does not mean: (k) claims to money that arise solely from (i) commercial contracts for the sale of goods or services, or (ii) the extension of credit in connection with a commercial transaction, such as trade financing, other than a loan covered by sub-paragraph (d); or (l) any other claims to money, that do not involve the kinds of interests set out in sub-paragraphs (a) to (j); I'm not an expert on Canadian law, but in the US at least, that definition does not appear to me as though it would cover real property. Property itself refers to chattel, and real property would need to be expressly included. So I'm not sure that they have a problem, as real property doesn't fall under the ordinary definition of an investment, and it's not encompassed in the agreement definition of investment above. Disclaimer: I'm not your lawyer. I know nothing about Canadian law. I am a dog pretending to be a lawyer on the internet.

telotortium 10y ago

hackerboos 10y ago

I would expect China not to pursue damages considering that the Chinese residents laundering money in Canada are breaking China's capital controls in the process.

jpollock 10y ago
Americans tend to be more litigious, and NAFTA is even more clear than the Chinese agreement [1], mentioning establishment and acquisition of investments. 1. Each Party shall accord to investors of another Party treatment no less favorable than that it accords, in like circumstances, to its own investors with respect to the establishment, acquisition, expansion, management, conduct, operation, and sale or other disposition of investments. 2. Each Party shall accord to investments of investors of another Party treatment no less favorable than that it accords, in like circumstances, to investments of its own investors with respect to the establishment, acquisition, expansion, management, conduct, operation, and sale or other disposition of investments. Canada has carved out some exemptions, specifically around ocean front property [2], probably intended for the control of ports. [1] http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/nafta-alena/text-texte/11.aspx?lang=eng http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-comm... [2] http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/anx2cda.asp http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/anx2cda.asp