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Very few people do construction because they love it. (source: worked in construction after high school) The same applies to most labor intensive jobs with litt

by hueving 10y ago

Very few people do construction because they love it. (source: worked in construction after high school) The same applies to most labor intensive jobs with little room for creativity (all of the ones I mentioned). There is no citation needed to show that society would collapse if essentially all manual labor stopped overnight. To suggest otherwise is silly.

coldtea 10y ago
>There is no citation needed to show that society would collapse if essentially all manual labor stopped overnight. To suggest otherwise is silly. To suggest what I proposed equals "all manual labor stops overnight" is taking for granted what you were supposed to prove. That's exactly what we were arguing about, remember?
- hueving 10y ago
  Ah, so it's a hand-wave of us somehow getting to a point where everyone was perfectly incentivized to automate everything (without price gouging in the case of monopolies) and pay enough taxes to cover the 12 trillion dollars to give 300 million people $40,000 anum? Last year the US brought in a bit over 3 trillion in tax receipts to put that in perspective.
dllthomas 10y ago
I think there's a big question of what "allowed to" means here. "We throw them in jail if they don't"? We don't do that presently. What we're talking about is "in addition to anything they earn, they choose the disposition of $X/yr", for various values for X. If X is $1, clearly everyone is still working. I agree with you that the $40k figure you cite downthread is extremely likely to be higher than we can support. I think there are intermediate values that might work substantially better than $0. Based on toying with numbers that I've done in the past, my guess is that the optimum value $4k and $9k/yr (though I'm not all that confident in that and would probably want to see it ramped up gradually). If you claim that this would mean "essentially all manual labor stopped overnight", that certainly needs a citation.

by hueving 10y ago

coldtea 10y ago

>There is no citation needed to show that society would collapse if essentially all manual labor stopped overnight. To suggest otherwise is silly. To suggest what I proposed equals "all manual labor stops overnight" is taking for granted what you were supposed to prove. That's exactly what we were arguing about, remember?

hueving 10y ago
Ah, so it's a hand-wave of us somehow getting to a point where everyone was perfectly incentivized to automate everything (without price gouging in the case of monopolies) and pay enough taxes to cover the 12 trillion dollars to give 300 million people $40,000 anum? Last year the US brought in a bit over 3 trillion in tax receipts to put that in perspective.

dllthomas 10y ago

I think there's a big question of what "allowed to" means here. "We throw them in jail if they don't"? We don't do that presently. What we're talking about is "in addition to anything they earn, they choose the disposition of $X/yr", for various values for X. If X is $1, clearly everyone is still working. I agree with you that the $40k figure you cite downthread is extremely likely to be higher than we can support. I think there are intermediate values that might work substantially better than $0. Based on toying with numbers that I've done in the past, my guess is that the optimum value $4k and $9k/yr (though I'm not all that confident in that and would probably want to see it ramped up gradually). If you claim that this would mean "essentially all manual labor stopped overnight", that certainly needs a citation.