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I don't think there is much to say here that hasn't already been said about IoT security - like many commentors mentioned before, we're going to be going throug

by ssharp 10y ago

I don't think there is much to say here that hasn't already been said about IoT security - like many commentors mentioned before, we're going to be going through a very rough period for some time where IoT devices just aren't up to par with expected security procedures, and consumer awareness campaigns will be necessary to educate less savvy consumers about the potential dangers of IoT devices at the moment. I suppose I can see some potential future value to devices like thermostats, that directly control "large" resources like natural gas (by "large", I mean relative to what other resources a household consumes). Smarter controls at the household level could provide substantial energy savings in the aggregate. However, the pessimist in me says "why does anyone really need appliances connected to the internet?". So you're trading off some potential future value to reduce overall energy use by better optimizing your own consumption in the present. You're also exposing yourself to faulty equipment that might also pose security risks. Do these thermostats have some sort of hardware kill switch that prevents software from doing clearly stupid things, like shutting off entirely or setting the heat to a maximum setting? Finally, there was this gem in the article that I did not remember hearing about: Munro, who last year found that a Samsung smart fridge leaked Gmail passwords What exactly is the purpose of a "smart fridge", why does it need Gmail passwords, etc.

59nadir 10y ago
> However, the pessimist in me says "why does anyone really need appliances connected to the internet?". I think it's important to answer this without any of the qualifications you write after it. No one needs it. It's not even necessarily about how secure it is; if you're paying extra for these features you're just throwing your money away in the name of gadgetism. You really don't need to fill in that they're unsafe or made with crap components. The truth is that no one would have a need of a perfectly made one.
- Klathmon 10y ago
  Well nobody has a need for 99% of the crap in our lives. You don't need a car, you don't need a TV, you don't need a computer. But it sure as hell is nice to have all of those things. I find it funny that in an article about how manufacturers are locking down their devices to only the features that the consumer needs (effectively having the manufacturer tell you what you need), you are going around telling others what they need.
- ssharp 10y ago
  I should have said "want" or "find value in" rather than "need". Of course you don't need it but I get hung up on what benefits a smart refrigerator is actually providing. Maybe I've reached curmudgeon-status but I don't see the benefit in a fridge telling me I need milk. I can generally tell if I need milk based on the last time I used the milk.
Klathmon 10y ago
Why does a car need a radio? Why does a cell phone need "candy crush"? Why does your TV need a remote? None of these things are necessary, 99% of them aren't "need to haves", but they are "nice to haves". I've gone down the "home automation" path, and i'm currently about $600 in and with that i've got most of the light switches in my house connected, as well as my thermostat and stuff like door locks and the garage door to the house. So keep in mind that I have a bias here. Individually there is no one thing that is "worth it", but together it all adds up to a nicer life to me. Being able to turn all the lights out after i've gotten comfy in bed, being able to make sure the door is locked after i took in groceries, turning on the porch light for the delivery guy, or even checking to make sure the garage door wasn't opened when our car was broken into a few weeks ago. Nobody wants a "Fridge that needs gmail passwords", but they want a fridge that can show your calendar. A fridge that can message you when you run out of something, a fridge that can show some photos from an album on your google account, or can send usage reports to your email on how much power it's using, or show you the weather or even the news. Now there are much better ways to implement all of that than just storing the gmail password and using it, but less technical people don't know that. Don't conflate the users' want of features with them wanting the security flaws as well. Now I still don't think any refrigerators on the market have reached the point where it's worth the extra money for the "smart features" (at least as of a year ago when i was looking for a new fridge), but I feel it's close. After all, a refrigerator is a large appliance very in-view in the middle of your kitchen. People have put things on them for years with magnets and tape, it's a prime location for a touchscreen that can control not only the fridge, but can show and control other parts of your life/home. IMO it's a perfect location for something like a screen, and a pretty logical extension of what people have been using that space for already for years. But to be honest I want other appliances to be "connected" first. Namely the dishwasher, and the clothes washer and dryer. Being able to schedule those, send alerts when they are done, to have the dishwasher determine if it's full enough to run now, or if it should wait, etc... Those are the things i'm looking for.
ghaff 10y ago
The thing with thermostats is that, on the one hand, I see pretty minimal benefits compared to a simple programmable Honeywell. On the other hand, as someone who lives in snow country, even a tiny, tiny decrease in reliability in the heating system just isn't worth it--and everything I've seen indicates that these fancy connected thermostats do indeed have lower reliability than simpler models.

by ssharp 10y ago

59nadir 10y ago

> However, the pessimist in me says "why does anyone really need appliances connected to the internet?". I think it's important to answer this without any of the qualifications you write after it. No one needs it. It's not even necessarily about how secure it is; if you're paying extra for these features you're just throwing your money away in the name of gadgetism. You really don't need to fill in that they're unsafe or made with crap components. The truth is that no one would have a need of a perfectly made one.

Klathmon 10y ago
Well nobody has a need for 99% of the crap in our lives. You don't need a car, you don't need a TV, you don't need a computer. But it sure as hell is nice to have all of those things. I find it funny that in an article about how manufacturers are locking down their devices to only the features that the consumer needs (effectively having the manufacturer tell you what you need), you are going around telling others what they need.
ssharp 10y ago
I should have said "want" or "find value in" rather than "need". Of course you don't need it but I get hung up on what benefits a smart refrigerator is actually providing. Maybe I've reached curmudgeon-status but I don't see the benefit in a fridge telling me I need milk. I can generally tell if I need milk based on the last time I used the milk.

Klathmon 10y ago

Why does a car need a radio? Why does a cell phone need "candy crush"? Why does your TV need a remote? None of these things are necessary, 99% of them aren't "need to haves", but they are "nice to haves". I've gone down the "home automation" path, and i'm currently about $600 in and with that i've got most of the light switches in my house connected, as well as my thermostat and stuff like door locks and the garage door to the house. So keep in mind that I have a bias here. Individually there is no one thing that is "worth it", but together it all adds up to a nicer life to me. Being able to turn all the lights out after i've gotten comfy in bed, being able to make sure the door is locked after i took in groceries, turning on the porch light for the delivery guy, or even checking to make sure the garage door wasn't opened when our car was broken into a few weeks ago. Nobody wants a "Fridge that needs gmail passwords", but they want a fridge that can show your calendar. A fridge that can message you when you run out of something, a fridge that can show some photos from an album on your google account, or can send usage reports to your email on how much power it's using, or show you the weather or even the news. Now there are much better ways to implement all of that than just storing the gmail password and using it, but less technical people don't know that. Don't conflate the users' want of features with them wanting the security flaws as well. Now I still don't think any refrigerators on the market have reached the point where it's worth the extra money for the "smart features" (at least as of a year ago when i was looking for a new fridge), but I feel it's close. After all, a refrigerator is a large appliance very in-view in the middle of your kitchen. People have put things on them for years with magnets and tape, it's a prime location for a touchscreen that can control not only the fridge, but can show and control other parts of your life/home. IMO it's a perfect location for something like a screen, and a pretty logical extension of what people have been using that space for already for years. But to be honest I want other appliances to be "connected" first. Namely the dishwasher, and the clothes washer and dryer. Being able to schedule those, send alerts when they are done, to have the dishwasher determine if it's full enough to run now, or if it should wait, etc... Those are the things i'm looking for.

ghaff 10y ago

The thing with thermostats is that, on the one hand, I see pretty minimal benefits compared to a simple programmable Honeywell. On the other hand, as someone who lives in snow country, even a tiny, tiny decrease in reliability in the heating system just isn't worth it--and everything I've seen indicates that these fancy connected thermostats do indeed have lower reliability than simpler models.