5 ms·

When countries we don't like begin to carry out their own drone strikes, expect to hear something like, "Civilized nations don't carry out justice like that in

by finid 10y ago

When countries we don't like begin to carry out their own drone strikes, expect to hear something like, "Civilized nations don't carry out justice like that in the 21st century. This has to stop now."

dogma1138 10y ago
What countries other than the US operate armed drones?
- Artlav 10y ago
  Russia kinda does. However, they are more like cruise missiles.
  - finid 10y ago
    Care to point me to a Russian drone- strike report? They do have UAVs for surveillance, but I've not seen any report of them using them for targeted killings. I think only USA and Israel have such a program, that is, used atively for targeted killings.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      Israel does perform targeted killings but not with drones, their air force doesn't want to arm them, and since the majority of their targets are in the Gaza strip these days the current legal framework in Israel forbids operating armed UAV's within Israel or the Palestinian Territories. For the most part the IAF was always "against" drones, in the 1970's drones were pushed heavily by the ground forces, from the early 90's to the early 2000's the drones were operated by the Intelligence Directorate, once the IAF figured out that drones are becoming a major thing they pretty much retroactively called dibs on them all, and now they are the ones that operating all drones (combat flight school washouts are retrained as drone pilots) other than infantry operated battlefield reconnaissance miniature UAV's.
      - finid 10y ago
        Now I recall that Israel has operated and used drones to take out a suspected shipment of Iranian arms somewhere over North Africa or East Africa. I don't have the source, but goolging should help you, if you're interested.
        dogma1138 10y ago
        Israel hasn't used drones in Sudan.
        finid 10y ago
        At least try googling before making a comment like that. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sudan_airstrikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sudan_airstrikes. They have also used drones to kill militants in Egypt.
        dogma1138 10y ago
        I don't need googling I was on active reserve duty during the 2009 strikes. The strike earlier this year that were reported by an ISIS affiliated group in the Sinai which were attributed to Israel were executed using attack helicopters even ISIS's own media reported as such, drones were used as they are always are for intelligence, tracking and BDA and in many cases for closing the shooter loop. Israeli AH-64 are also equipped with SPIKE NLOS which has a range of 25KM rather than the 8K (or well 4KM as far as the AGM-114 that Israel is allowed to buy) that the Hellfire can do, this allows Israel to engage targets at a distance sufficient for political cover including over the border when needed. When longer ranges are required Delilah or potentially the SPICE 1000/ER (SPICE doesn't have terminal AAL capabilities which are currently mandated by the legal guidelines in Israel, but if the target is outside of the territories it can potentially be used) can be used to increasing the range to 100-250KM which allows Israel to engage from international airspace or from within a "friendly nation". Please stop basing your entire worldview on Google and not to mention wikipedia, neither are particularly a reliable source.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Russia has loitering munitions, you can technically classify them as "drones" but they aren't really the same thing, mostly since if those are drones then any modern missile today is also a drone. China can has drones that can potentially be armed, but China hasn't really engaged anyone kinda well ever. Israel has operated drones for longer than the US has, and it's bigger drones like the Hermes 900 and the Heron TP (and probably some of the smaller ones) can be potentially be armed with munitions considerably bigger than the Hellfire missile, but there has never been a single confirmation of this, the IAF seems to be against it and the current legal framework in Israel doesn't allow for armed drones to operate within Israel or the "territories", and they are not allowed to be used for targeted assassinations either.
    - spltt342e23 10y ago
      > but China hasn't really engaged anyone kinda well ever Yes, they have. Zhenbao Island, Korea, Sino-Indian War, Paracel Islands, Sino-Vietnamese War, and more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Peo...
      - finid 10y ago
        I think he was referring to engaging with armed drones.
- steve19 10y ago
  Many countries including Italy, Turkey, China and UK. Also as another commenter said, there is little different between a drone and a cruise missile (other than reuse).
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    None of those countries, with the exception of China operate armed drones. The UK's drone is the Skywatcher 450 which is a homebuilt version of the Israeli Hermes 450 and it is not armed. Italy's homegrown drones are still in development and are primarily for export and by default unarmed, it does operate a few Israeli Hermes UAV which are again unarmed. China has quite a bit of UAV's they seem to mirror the same form and function as the US ones, they also routinely buy UAV's from other countries primarily Israel but the only "armed" UAV that Israel has sold China is technically a loitering munition. And while China did showcase a few drones that were armed it doesn't actually operates them anywhere, not that it won't in the future but currently it's pretty much only the US which uses armed drones on well a daily basis.
    - steve19 10y ago
      Who said anything about homebuilt? You have just introduced that concept. It makes no difference who makes them. Few countries make subs, but plenty of countries field them. Italy has, for example, an armed and an unarmed squadron of Predators. They have even used armed Predators against ISIS in Iraq.
    - ionised 10y ago
      The UK carried out a strike against one of its citizens in Syria, so they most certainly do use armed drones. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-airstrike-killed-isis-briton-reyaad-khan-syria https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-ai... It was a US-built drone, but it was a British mission with British pilots.
- xlxlxlx 10y ago
  It appears that Saudi Arabia just purchased some. http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/25/5652804/saudi-arabia-has-joined-the-global-drone-arms-race http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/25/5652804/saudi-arabia-has-j...
- _djo_ 10y ago
  China operates a number of armed drones, whether they've been used in any actions is unknown. Nigeria operates armed CH-4 drones from China. South Africa has armed versions of its Seeker 400 drone, though it's not clear if those acquired by Defence Intelligence are armed yet. Iran's Shahed-129 drone is armed with the Sadid-1 air-to-surface missile and is in active service. Israel has armed drones, even though present policy prevents them from being used in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. The UK and Italy both have armed Reapers. Saudi Arabia has also acquired armed drones from China. In short, nearly 25 countries either have or are actively developing armed drones. I expect that number to go up dramatically in the next ten years, as armed drones become as common exports as unarmed drones.
Aelinsaar 10y ago
Maybe, or maybe it will just be a reason to build a wildly expensive, "National Drone Defense Network". Haha... who needs roads, bridges, and sewers anyway?!

by finid 10y ago

dogma1138 10y ago

What countries other than the US operate armed drones?

Artlav 10y ago
Russia kinda does. However, they are more like cruise missiles.
- finid 10y ago
  Care to point me to a Russian drone- strike report? They do have UAVs for surveillance, but I've not seen any report of them using them for targeted killings. I think only USA and Israel have such a program, that is, used atively for targeted killings.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Israel does perform targeted killings but not with drones, their air force doesn't want to arm them, and since the majority of their targets are in the Gaza strip these days the current legal framework in Israel forbids operating armed UAV's within Israel or the Palestinian Territories. For the most part the IAF was always "against" drones, in the 1970's drones were pushed heavily by the ground forces, from the early 90's to the early 2000's the drones were operated by the Intelligence Directorate, once the IAF figured out that drones are becoming a major thing they pretty much retroactively called dibs on them all, and now they are the ones that operating all drones (combat flight school washouts are retrained as drone pilots) other than infantry operated battlefield reconnaissance miniature UAV's.
    - finid 10y ago
      Now I recall that Israel has operated and used drones to take out a suspected shipment of Iranian arms somewhere over North Africa or East Africa. I don't have the source, but goolging should help you, if you're interested.
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        Israel hasn't used drones in Sudan.
        finid 10y ago
        At least try googling before making a comment like that. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sudan_airstrikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sudan_airstrikes. They have also used drones to kill militants in Egypt.
        dogma1138 10y ago
        I don't need googling I was on active reserve duty during the 2009 strikes. The strike earlier this year that were reported by an ISIS affiliated group in the Sinai which were attributed to Israel were executed using attack helicopters even ISIS's own media reported as such, drones were used as they are always are for intelligence, tracking and BDA and in many cases for closing the shooter loop. Israeli AH-64 are also equipped with SPIKE NLOS which has a range of 25KM rather than the 8K (or well 4KM as far as the AGM-114 that Israel is allowed to buy) that the Hellfire can do, this allows Israel to engage targets at a distance sufficient for political cover including over the border when needed. When longer ranges are required Delilah or potentially the SPICE 1000/ER (SPICE doesn't have terminal AAL capabilities which are currently mandated by the legal guidelines in Israel, but if the target is outside of the territories it can potentially be used) can be used to increasing the range to 100-250KM which allows Israel to engage from international airspace or from within a "friendly nation". Please stop basing your entire worldview on Google and not to mention wikipedia, neither are particularly a reliable source.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Russia has loitering munitions, you can technically classify them as "drones" but they aren't really the same thing, mostly since if those are drones then any modern missile today is also a drone. China can has drones that can potentially be armed, but China hasn't really engaged anyone kinda well ever. Israel has operated drones for longer than the US has, and it's bigger drones like the Hermes 900 and the Heron TP (and probably some of the smaller ones) can be potentially be armed with munitions considerably bigger than the Hellfire missile, but there has never been a single confirmation of this, the IAF seems to be against it and the current legal framework in Israel doesn't allow for armed drones to operate within Israel or the "territories", and they are not allowed to be used for targeted assassinations either.
  - spltt342e23 10y ago
    > but China hasn't really engaged anyone kinda well ever Yes, they have. Zhenbao Island, Korea, Sino-Indian War, Paracel Islands, Sino-Vietnamese War, and more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Peo...
    - finid 10y ago
      I think he was referring to engaging with armed drones.
steve19 10y ago
Many countries including Italy, Turkey, China and UK. Also as another commenter said, there is little different between a drone and a cruise missile (other than reuse).
- dogma1138 10y ago
  None of those countries, with the exception of China operate armed drones. The UK's drone is the Skywatcher 450 which is a homebuilt version of the Israeli Hermes 450 and it is not armed. Italy's homegrown drones are still in development and are primarily for export and by default unarmed, it does operate a few Israeli Hermes UAV which are again unarmed. China has quite a bit of UAV's they seem to mirror the same form and function as the US ones, they also routinely buy UAV's from other countries primarily Israel but the only "armed" UAV that Israel has sold China is technically a loitering munition. And while China did showcase a few drones that were armed it doesn't actually operates them anywhere, not that it won't in the future but currently it's pretty much only the US which uses armed drones on well a daily basis.
  - steve19 10y ago
    Who said anything about homebuilt? You have just introduced that concept. It makes no difference who makes them. Few countries make subs, but plenty of countries field them. Italy has, for example, an armed and an unarmed squadron of Predators. They have even used armed Predators against ISIS in Iraq.
  - ionised 10y ago
    The UK carried out a strike against one of its citizens in Syria, so they most certainly do use armed drones. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-airstrike-killed-isis-briton-reyaad-khan-syria https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/uk-forces-ai... It was a US-built drone, but it was a British mission with British pilots.
xlxlxlx 10y ago
It appears that Saudi Arabia just purchased some. http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/25/5652804/saudi-arabia-has-joined-the-global-drone-arms-race http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/25/5652804/saudi-arabia-has-j...
_djo_ 10y ago
China operates a number of armed drones, whether they've been used in any actions is unknown. Nigeria operates armed CH-4 drones from China. South Africa has armed versions of its Seeker 400 drone, though it's not clear if those acquired by Defence Intelligence are armed yet. Iran's Shahed-129 drone is armed with the Sadid-1 air-to-surface missile and is in active service. Israel has armed drones, even though present policy prevents them from being used in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. The UK and Italy both have armed Reapers. Saudi Arabia has also acquired armed drones from China. In short, nearly 25 countries either have or are actively developing armed drones. I expect that number to go up dramatically in the next ten years, as armed drones become as common exports as unarmed drones.

Aelinsaar 10y ago

Maybe, or maybe it will just be a reason to build a wildly expensive, "National Drone Defense Network". Haha... who needs roads, bridges, and sewers anyway?!