3 ms·

This was hard to read. I know the author meant well, but I have a lot of bones to pick with this. The shortened version of my gripes is this: Don't teach your d

This was hard to read. I know the author meant well, but I have a lot of bones to pick with this. The shortened version of my gripes is this: Don't teach your daughter to excuse casual misogyny and seek "honorable" men, for whatever definition of that you might have (there seems to be a latent message of "don't be a slut" in here too, which is also a big problem). Women shouldn't have to put up with men who see dating as a bloodsport and women as "prey", and men who conceptualize their relationship with women like this are so profoundly complicit with misogyny that I don't see how compassion would do any good. The author uses colorful analogies as stand-ins for things that are very cold and dark, and I don't see how this is anything more than victim blaming. I'd rather read the letter from a father to his son. At least this person realizes that socializing men is part of the problem here.

crgwbr 10y ago
I agree that women should not have to put up with casual misogyny. However that belief alone doesn't make the problem go away. In that vain, giving advice to your daughter that is pragmatic and acknowledges a problem isn't synonymous with excusing a problem.
- knucklesandwich 10y ago
  My point is you probably shouldn't normalize this kind of behavior or advise your daughter to forgive it and steer men like this towards someone to mentor them. Women don't have an obligation to raise men they didn't help birth, and teaching them that they ought to promulgates misogyny of a different form. I understand this is meant in the spirit of "turn the other cheek", but this isn't really good advice unless you're already operating on the principle of good faith and equal standing. It's not even clear that this alleviates the original problem, since why would men who don't respect women be amenable to this? Teach them to require consent and communication, and tell them they'll always have your support. Beyond that, don't get involved in what may or may not be virtuous behavior to you. Women inherit a lot of puritanical guilt over nonsense that parents project onto them. I understand the desire to protect your children, and particularly your daughter in a world that generally values them less. But misogyny is a power dynamic that is reinforced by socializing women to normalize it and especially by socializing men to perceive their existence and agency as more valuable.

crgwbr 10y ago

I agree that women should not have to put up with casual misogyny. However that belief alone doesn't make the problem go away. In that vain, giving advice to your daughter that is pragmatic and acknowledges a problem isn't synonymous with excusing a problem.

knucklesandwich 10y ago
My point is you probably shouldn't normalize this kind of behavior or advise your daughter to forgive it and steer men like this towards someone to mentor them. Women don't have an obligation to raise men they didn't help birth, and teaching them that they ought to promulgates misogyny of a different form. I understand this is meant in the spirit of "turn the other cheek", but this isn't really good advice unless you're already operating on the principle of good faith and equal standing. It's not even clear that this alleviates the original problem, since why would men who don't respect women be amenable to this? Teach them to require consent and communication, and tell them they'll always have your support. Beyond that, don't get involved in what may or may not be virtuous behavior to you. Women inherit a lot of puritanical guilt over nonsense that parents project onto them. I understand the desire to protect your children, and particularly your daughter in a world that generally values them less. But misogyny is a power dynamic that is reinforced by socializing women to normalize it and especially by socializing men to perceive their existence and agency as more valuable.