4 ms·

Speed for starters (Tor is an order of magnitude slower) and many things, like advanced JavaScript (websockets for example), flash and Java, simply can't traver

Speed for starters (Tor is an order of magnitude slower) and many things, like advanced JavaScript (websockets for example), flash and Java, simply can't traverse it reliably. Also it's not what people expect. Many people expect private mode to make it so their active session's browsing doesn't effect their browsing history or they tracked history, not to anonymize them entirely.

lucb1e 10y ago
> Tor is an order of magnitude slower This claim is frequently made but I think I can objectively say (it's not the Tor fan speaking) that it's wrong. Can you back this up with numbers? Like, real world user's numbers. That means WiFi or 3g, or at best a 100mbps wire to an old WRT54G; not a professional, cabled desktop setup with FTTH or 802.11ac that many of us might use (as professionals or hobbyists). Depending on some luck in the Tor circuit, it should be as good as a good public wifi hotspot. Or in a bad case it might be as bad as an overloaded and far away public hotspot, but circuits rotate now and then anyway. I'd be genuinely interested to see some user testing in this area, especially if the users know the privacy difference it makes and can toggle it at will.
- ikt 10y ago
  I'm a tor fan (I run a relay) and installed it on my phone, it was objectively much much slower and things like url redirects (from emails etc) wouldn't load, I ended up having to turn it off so often that I effectively abandoned it. I would like to move to a tor only setup, my biggest issue is that it's just too slow. Granted I am in Australia so most of my requests were literally going to the other side of the world and then back again to complete.
- SolarNet 10y ago
  A quick test I did just now. Response from google via Tor: 208 ms. Response from google without: 32 ms. To be fair I am basically on a trunk line via my university. I mean you are right though, a domestic WiFi connection is likely to be in the 200 ms range, so another 200 ms on-top of that might not be as big of a deal, but I would suspect it would still end up being closer to 500 ms to get a response. Google made a point where anything over 200 ms feels slow to users. Tor is definitely going to push everything over that.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    > a domestic WiFi connection is likely to be in the 200 ms range My wifi connection gives me ~18ms roundtrip to Google, and about 8ms extra to work, and ~50ms roundtrip from my moms house in Norway where I am currently, via her wifi, to my home server in the UK (and ~18ms roundtrip to Google from here too). These are nothing special for developed countries - just regular consumer connections. When I've been on business fibre subscriptions we've consistently gotten better results. EDIT: I initially wrote "maybe 5 years ago", without thinking. Some additional observations: While ~200ms roundtrips to a site was a thing going back long enough, first hop latencies even on dialup was rarely even 100ms. I know: I ran an ISP, and had to deal with irate customer if latency from them to their nearest games servers got to that kind of level, even in the mid 90's. SSH connection roundtrips start becoming painful in the ~120ms roundtrip range, and it's been a decade plus since that's been a problem other than when managing a slow system on the US west coast or Asia for me (connecting from Europe). Beijing or New Zealand has been in the 200ms+ range for me. If anything closer is in that range, it's a sign something is wrong.

lucb1e 10y ago

> Tor is an order of magnitude slower This claim is frequently made but I think I can objectively say (it's not the Tor fan speaking) that it's wrong. Can you back this up with numbers? Like, real world user's numbers. That means WiFi or 3g, or at best a 100mbps wire to an old WRT54G; not a professional, cabled desktop setup with FTTH or 802.11ac that many of us might use (as professionals or hobbyists). Depending on some luck in the Tor circuit, it should be as good as a good public wifi hotspot. Or in a bad case it might be as bad as an overloaded and far away public hotspot, but circuits rotate now and then anyway. I'd be genuinely interested to see some user testing in this area, especially if the users know the privacy difference it makes and can toggle it at will.

ikt 10y ago
I'm a tor fan (I run a relay) and installed it on my phone, it was objectively much much slower and things like url redirects (from emails etc) wouldn't load, I ended up having to turn it off so often that I effectively abandoned it. I would like to move to a tor only setup, my biggest issue is that it's just too slow. Granted I am in Australia so most of my requests were literally going to the other side of the world and then back again to complete.
SolarNet 10y ago
A quick test I did just now. Response from google via Tor: 208 ms. Response from google without: 32 ms. To be fair I am basically on a trunk line via my university. I mean you are right though, a domestic WiFi connection is likely to be in the 200 ms range, so another 200 ms on-top of that might not be as big of a deal, but I would suspect it would still end up being closer to 500 ms to get a response. Google made a point where anything over 200 ms feels slow to users. Tor is definitely going to push everything over that.
- vidarh 10y ago
  > a domestic WiFi connection is likely to be in the 200 ms range My wifi connection gives me ~18ms roundtrip to Google, and about 8ms extra to work, and ~50ms roundtrip from my moms house in Norway where I am currently, via her wifi, to my home server in the UK (and ~18ms roundtrip to Google from here too). These are nothing special for developed countries - just regular consumer connections. When I've been on business fibre subscriptions we've consistently gotten better results. EDIT: I initially wrote "maybe 5 years ago", without thinking. Some additional observations: While ~200ms roundtrips to a site was a thing going back long enough, first hop latencies even on dialup was rarely even 100ms. I know: I ran an ISP, and had to deal with irate customer if latency from them to their nearest games servers got to that kind of level, even in the mid 90's. SSH connection roundtrips start becoming painful in the ~120ms roundtrip range, and it's been a decade plus since that's been a problem other than when managing a slow system on the US west coast or Asia for me (connecting from Europe). Beijing or New Zealand has been in the 200ms+ range for me. If anything closer is in that range, it's a sign something is wrong.