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One of the trends propelling Uber is that of self-driving cars. HOWEVER: What's stopping the car companies from simply running it themselves and cutting out ub

by voiper1 10y ago

One of the trends propelling Uber is that of self-driving cars. HOWEVER: What's stopping the car companies from simply running it themselves and cutting out uber as the middleman? Tesla already announced they plan to facilitate ride sharing. (https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux)

rjsw 10y ago
The car manufacturers have owned car rental companies in the past, doing something similar with self-driving cars isn't a big step.
- rhino369 10y ago
  Or even car rental companies themselves could be strong competition. They already have fleet management skills that uber lacks completely.
martin_bech 10y ago
Ford has publicly announced that they are doing the same thing, and allocating billions to it.
RickS 10y ago
>HOWEVER: What's stopping the car companies from simply running it themselves and cutting out uber as the middleman? Ignoring tesla for a minute: 1) Engineering prowess. User-facing software in cars is notoriously poor, and the idea that the same people that greenlit the nissan cube can deploy and scale an uber rival seems generous to say the least. 2) Exclusivity/overcrowdedness. Uber and lyft don't have strong opinions about brand of car (though the prius is the default, and they care about newness). This is likely not true of more traditional car companies. This leads to one of two scenarios: in the first, companies try to limit their ride hailing to on-brand cars, meaning you can only hail fords with ford-uber, etc, requiring that users have multiple apps and pit them against each other. This seems silly. In the second, they allow others brands to be hailed as well, and then you've got mostly identical ride hailing apps, each from a different car company, and the car companies are now competing on experiential nuances that aren't even centered around their vehicle offerings. That's nutty too. This wasn't my thought going in, but having written all that, tesla seems like a much better buy all of the sudden, because it's the only player that feels like it has the software skills to solve 1, and the apple-esque brand clout to solve 2.
- merb 10y ago
  What you miss is that most car companies have a really akward company structure. What I've read in german teach forums after the bad thing happened to VW, it's really good to understand why that happened. It's really fearful to look at such org charts
- randunel 10y ago
  We've got DRM on batteries (Renault's electric vehicles) requiring a renewal with unknown terms and conditions. What's to stop vehicle manufacturers from slapping on a Personal-Use Terms of Service to their vehicles which prohibits the Commercial Use (under different ToS), or Restricted Commercial Use Policy which prevents self-driving passenger rides outside their approved apps? They would be able to enforce it by remotely disabling the battery when such practices are found (Renault can do that already).
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Because people who want to rent their self-driving cars won't buy those, and companies with lower marketshare (therefore, less likely to be able to form a competitive network by themselves) will have an incentive to go after those buyers. I.e., competition.
    - kalleboo 10y ago
      > companies with lower marketshare (therefore, less likely to be able to form a competitive network by themselves) will have an incentive to go after those buyers Perhaps a rise in Chinese car makers
- kalleboo 10y ago
  > User-facing software in cars is notoriously poor Good thing companies like Apple and Google aren't getting into the self-driving car business
- PinguTS 10y ago
  You seem to ignore that those car companies have such services already in place and run them successfully. Car2Go from Mercedes was first and started with the Smart. It is now being supplemented by higher-end models. BMW has the same service running together with SIXT in Europe with BMW Mini and other smaller models. Also VW started the same just a few years ago, but is not widely used, AFAIK.
aaron695 10y ago
> What's stopping the car companies from simply running it themselves and cutting out uber as the middleman? The exact same thing that's stopping them from competing with Uber right now? Self-driving has nothing to do with the equation.
- voiper1 10y ago
  I disagree: To my mind, the coordination with drivers -- and their need to have enough work to stick with you -- is a huge factor. Once you cut out the driver by having self-driving cars, you're left mostly with a capital issue. Then the car companies are able to add cars to the fleet at a better price than Uber.
sschueller 10y ago
What will be disappointing is that although you may have purchased a self driving car. You will most likely not able to to offer self driving ride sharing without paying some sort of fee to the car company or 3rd party. Cars are slowly moving into the direction where you no longer own it outright. Tesla could prevent you from selling your car even though you "own" it.
- cjrp 10y ago
  Do most Americans even own their car anyway? I was under the impression most were on finance/leased.
  - kgwgk 10y ago
    Getting a loan doesn't mean you don't own the car. And leases represent one in three sales, but most cars on the road are not new. http://www.wsj.com/articles/record-vehicle-leasing-could-pinch-new-auto-margins-1457294745 http://www.wsj.com/articles/record-vehicle-leasing-could-pin...

by voiper1 10y ago

rjsw 10y ago

The car manufacturers have owned car rental companies in the past, doing something similar with self-driving cars isn't a big step.

rhino369 10y ago
Or even car rental companies themselves could be strong competition. They already have fleet management skills that uber lacks completely.

martin_bech 10y ago

Ford has publicly announced that they are doing the same thing, and allocating billions to it.

RickS 10y ago

>HOWEVER: What's stopping the car companies from simply running it themselves and cutting out uber as the middleman? Ignoring tesla for a minute: 1) Engineering prowess. User-facing software in cars is notoriously poor, and the idea that the same people that greenlit the nissan cube can deploy and scale an uber rival seems generous to say the least. 2) Exclusivity/overcrowdedness. Uber and lyft don't have strong opinions about brand of car (though the prius is the default, and they care about newness). This is likely not true of more traditional car companies. This leads to one of two scenarios: in the first, companies try to limit their ride hailing to on-brand cars, meaning you can only hail fords with ford-uber, etc, requiring that users have multiple apps and pit them against each other. This seems silly. In the second, they allow others brands to be hailed as well, and then you've got mostly identical ride hailing apps, each from a different car company, and the car companies are now competing on experiential nuances that aren't even centered around their vehicle offerings. That's nutty too. This wasn't my thought going in, but having written all that, tesla seems like a much better buy all of the sudden, because it's the only player that feels like it has the software skills to solve 1, and the apple-esque brand clout to solve 2.

merb 10y ago
What you miss is that most car companies have a really akward company structure. What I've read in german teach forums after the bad thing happened to VW, it's really good to understand why that happened. It's really fearful to look at such org charts
randunel 10y ago
We've got DRM on batteries (Renault's electric vehicles) requiring a renewal with unknown terms and conditions. What's to stop vehicle manufacturers from slapping on a Personal-Use Terms of Service to their vehicles which prohibits the Commercial Use (under different ToS), or Restricted Commercial Use Policy which prevents self-driving passenger rides outside their approved apps? They would be able to enforce it by remotely disabling the battery when such practices are found (Renault can do that already).
- icebraining 10y ago
  Because people who want to rent their self-driving cars won't buy those, and companies with lower marketshare (therefore, less likely to be able to form a competitive network by themselves) will have an incentive to go after those buyers. I.e., competition.
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    > companies with lower marketshare (therefore, less likely to be able to form a competitive network by themselves) will have an incentive to go after those buyers Perhaps a rise in Chinese car makers
kalleboo 10y ago
> User-facing software in cars is notoriously poor Good thing companies like Apple and Google aren't getting into the self-driving car business
PinguTS 10y ago
You seem to ignore that those car companies have such services already in place and run them successfully. Car2Go from Mercedes was first and started with the Smart. It is now being supplemented by higher-end models. BMW has the same service running together with SIXT in Europe with BMW Mini and other smaller models. Also VW started the same just a few years ago, but is not widely used, AFAIK.

aaron695 10y ago

> What's stopping the car companies from simply running it themselves and cutting out uber as the middleman? The exact same thing that's stopping them from competing with Uber right now? Self-driving has nothing to do with the equation.

voiper1 10y ago
I disagree: To my mind, the coordination with drivers -- and their need to have enough work to stick with you -- is a huge factor. Once you cut out the driver by having self-driving cars, you're left mostly with a capital issue. Then the car companies are able to add cars to the fleet at a better price than Uber.

sschueller 10y ago

What will be disappointing is that although you may have purchased a self driving car. You will most likely not able to to offer self driving ride sharing without paying some sort of fee to the car company or 3rd party. Cars are slowly moving into the direction where you no longer own it outright. Tesla could prevent you from selling your car even though you "own" it.

cjrp 10y ago
Do most Americans even own their car anyway? I was under the impression most were on finance/leased.
- kgwgk 10y ago
  Getting a loan doesn't mean you don't own the car. And leases represent one in three sales, but most cars on the road are not new. http://www.wsj.com/articles/record-vehicle-leasing-could-pinch-new-auto-margins-1457294745 http://www.wsj.com/articles/record-vehicle-leasing-could-pin...