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They get bored easily, and boredom leads to destruction. Herding dogs need to be worked regularly.

by dexwiz 10y ago

WalterBright 10y ago
If dogs are bred to herd, it seems reasonable that there'd be trouble if they aren't herding. But many dogs know several hundred words. I hypothesize that with breeding this could be increased substantially. Perhaps even sentences. I'm not convinced that would cause them to be destructive.
- gwern 10y ago
  > If dogs are bred to herd, it seems reasonable that there'd be trouble if they aren't herding. Chimpanzees aren't bred to herd but are at least as intelligent, and keeping them in captivity is even more problematic than border collies: neurotic, destructive, difficult to keep safely contained, super expensive to 'retire' and care for. Which is one reason that countries like the USA have been trying to phase out primate research as much as possible.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    Keeping intelligent creatures like chimps in cages for life is abusive and clearly wrong. If we create intelligent dogs, treating them in a manner consistent with their intelligence comes with the territory.
    - gwern 10y ago
      Yes, that's my point. Treating a chimpanzee well, at a primate retirement center, is extremely expensive and difficult to the point where governments & scientific organizations have trouble and are trying to avoid having to do in the future. Nor are zoos cheap to run. And people are already having difficulty keeping their border collies occupied and treated in a manner consistent with their existing high intelligence. (Not that dogs in general are treated optimally - think of how many fat dogs there are, or how many have to be put down for 'behavioral problems'.) And you think it's a swell idea to make the situation worse? It's not.
Retra 10y ago
In my experience, the more intelligent dogs tend to get bored less easily, enjoy their time with humans more, and learn better about which behaviors are appropriate and desired. Of course, I could be an awful judge of dog intelligence.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  I know I've had more fun with smart dogs.

They get bored easily, and boredom leads to destruction. Herding dogs need to be worked regularly.

by dexwiz 10y ago

They get bored easily, and boredom leads to destruction. Herding dogs need to be worked regularly.

If dogs are bred to herd, it seems reasonable that there'd be trouble if they aren't herding. But many dogs know several hundred words. I hypothesize that with breeding this could be increased substantially. Perhaps even sentences. I'm not convinced that would cause them to be destructive.

gwern 10y ago
> If dogs are bred to herd, it seems reasonable that there'd be trouble if they aren't herding. Chimpanzees aren't bred to herd but are at least as intelligent, and keeping them in captivity is even more problematic than border collies: neurotic, destructive, difficult to keep safely contained, super expensive to 'retire' and care for. Which is one reason that countries like the USA have been trying to phase out primate research as much as possible.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  Keeping intelligent creatures like chimps in cages for life is abusive and clearly wrong. If we create intelligent dogs, treating them in a manner consistent with their intelligence comes with the territory.
  - gwern 10y ago
    Yes, that's my point. Treating a chimpanzee well, at a primate retirement center, is extremely expensive and difficult to the point where governments & scientific organizations have trouble and are trying to avoid having to do in the future. Nor are zoos cheap to run. And people are already having difficulty keeping their border collies occupied and treated in a manner consistent with their existing high intelligence. (Not that dogs in general are treated optimally - think of how many fat dogs there are, or how many have to be put down for 'behavioral problems'.) And you think it's a swell idea to make the situation worse? It's not.

Retra 10y ago

In my experience, the more intelligent dogs tend to get bored less easily, enjoy their time with humans more, and learn better about which behaviors are appropriate and desired. Of course, I could be an awful judge of dog intelligence.

WalterBright 10y ago
I know I've had more fun with smart dogs.