4 ms·

Kindly explain to me how I am misreading this article: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/teens-baltimore-poorer-health-urban-nigeria/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/

by ajamesm 10y ago

Kindly explain to me how I am misreading this article: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/teens-baltimore-poorer-health-urban-nigeria/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/teens-baltimore-poorer-health... "DR. ROBERT BLUM, JOHNS HOPKINS URBAN HEALTH INSTITUTE: Well, first of all, just to put that in perspective, if Baltimore were a country, we would be 75th in the world for infant mortality, below every industrialize country and many low and middle-income countries." That is an American neighborhood. Tell me how Medicare and welfare payments make everything alright again? -- I don't know if you've looked at how much gov't assistance is paying out, but it's not enough to live on. There's a plethora of data contradicting everything you say, but it doesn't fit with your moralizing narrative.

twblalock 10y ago
Your article does not explain why the infant mortality rate is so high there. I suspect that the behavior of people in that community, which the article states includes high rates of violence, including violence against children, is the primary cause of infant and non-infant mortality. You could build a world-class hospital in the middle of that community, and give away health care for free, and that community would still have high rates of mortality. > I don't know if you've looked at how much gov't assistance is paying out, but it's not enough to live on. Clearly it is, because these people don't have jobs and are able to afford housing, cars, TVs, Playstations, etc. How else are they paying for these things? Do you think they stole them? Clearly, the money they receive from the government is enough to live on. Maybe not enough to live comfortably, but enough.
- ajamesm 10y ago
  Oh, you "suspect" that. How conclusive! Look at the data, and quit the horseshit about "these people" and their misguided priorities. Food deserts. Lead paint poisoning. Lack of access to healthcare. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-health-20160216-story.html http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-hea... "Take, for instance, Sharlene Adams who recently needed a blood pressure cuff. To buy one required no less than four bus rides, a stop at her doctor's office for his signature, a visit to two different pharmacies and a side trip to borrow money to make the required co-pay. The 55-year-old eventually got her hands on the $40 item in East Baltimore 5 1/2 hours after starting on her quest, the Maryland students documented."
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Lack of access to healthcare actually probably has very little effect. See figure 8: https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2513561 https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2513561 Or see the Oregon experiment: https://www.nber.org/oregon/ https://www.nber.org/oregon/ Food deserts are actually the result of people's consumption choices - poor folks choose not to buy healthy food, so no one sells it to them. Making healthy food available does not change this behavior. http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-access-to-healthier-food-isnt-enough/ http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-ac...
    - ajamesm 10y ago
      proximity to good food is necessary, but not sufficient, for healthy meals. People's consumption choices are also informed by (for example) whether they have the skills to cook the food that's available to them
  - twblalock 10y ago
    There is plenty of data, in the article you linked, demonstrating that the behavior and priorities of these people are indeed misguided and violent. That's not what I suspect, that's what I know, and there is no shortage of data to back this up. The thing I suspect is that the violence these people visit on themselves contributes more to their situation than lack of access to government services. I didn't say that more government services wouldn't help at all. By the way, the Baltimore Sun article you cited is not about poor white people. It is about poor urban blacks in West Baltimore. That's not really relevant to this discussion, because blacks have faced enslavement and discrimination for centuries in this country. Discrimination against blacks, especially in hiring practices, has helped the poor white people we are talking about. Having to now compete against non-whites for jobs is a significant component of the poor white anger in this country, although many don't want to admit that.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
it's not enough to live on. There's a plethora of data contradicting everything you say, Why don't you cite some of it, then? I can certainly cite plenty of data showing he's mostly right. For example, the poor mostly do not work, they mostly have good quality housing, and they have lots of food. http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf https://www.brookings.edu/2015/01/08/weight-and-social-mobility-taking-the-long-view-on-childhood-obesity/ https://www.brookings.edu/2015/01/08/weight-and-social-mobil... Concretely, what do you think he's wrong about, and where is the data supporting your claims?
- ajamesm 10y ago
  Because the parent comment made the original assertion, and that's how the game works. "The earth is flat, prove me wrong!" no thanks. Also, your second link is literally 642 pages, please point to the relevant part.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    The second link is the American housing survey, and it describes in detail a huge number of qualities of housing. For example (table 2-2, page 48), 2.75% of poor households have a sagging roof. 66% of poor households (table 2-3, page 50) have at least 2 rooms/person and 94% have at least 1 room/person. 3.5% (table 2-4, page 52) lack a complete kitchen. I don't know of any single characteristic to cite to prove that the conditions of poor people's housing are good; but whatever specific characteristic you want info on, you can probably find it in that document.
protomyth 10y ago
Just a statistical note: infant mortality is accounted for differently in many countries. Due to how the US counts it, parts of Europe and other countries will often have a lower number. You would think it would be apples to apples, but it's not.

by ajamesm 10y ago

twblalock 10y ago

Your article does not explain why the infant mortality rate is so high there. I suspect that the behavior of people in that community, which the article states includes high rates of violence, including violence against children, is the primary cause of infant and non-infant mortality. You could build a world-class hospital in the middle of that community, and give away health care for free, and that community would still have high rates of mortality. > I don't know if you've looked at how much gov't assistance is paying out, but it's not enough to live on. Clearly it is, because these people don't have jobs and are able to afford housing, cars, TVs, Playstations, etc. How else are they paying for these things? Do you think they stole them? Clearly, the money they receive from the government is enough to live on. Maybe not enough to live comfortably, but enough.

ajamesm 10y ago
Oh, you "suspect" that. How conclusive! Look at the data, and quit the horseshit about "these people" and their misguided priorities. Food deserts. Lead paint poisoning. Lack of access to healthcare. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-health-20160216-story.html http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-hea... "Take, for instance, Sharlene Adams who recently needed a blood pressure cuff. To buy one required no less than four bus rides, a stop at her doctor's office for his signature, a visit to two different pharmacies and a side trip to borrow money to make the required co-pay. The 55-year-old eventually got her hands on the $40 item in East Baltimore 5 1/2 hours after starting on her quest, the Maryland students documented."
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Lack of access to healthcare actually probably has very little effect. See figure 8: https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2513561 https://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2513561 Or see the Oregon experiment: https://www.nber.org/oregon/ https://www.nber.org/oregon/ Food deserts are actually the result of people's consumption choices - poor folks choose not to buy healthy food, so no one sells it to them. Making healthy food available does not change this behavior. http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-access-to-healthier-food-isnt-enough/ http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/giving-people-ac...
  - ajamesm 10y ago
    proximity to good food is necessary, but not sufficient, for healthy meals. People's consumption choices are also informed by (for example) whether they have the skills to cook the food that's available to them
- twblalock 10y ago
  There is plenty of data, in the article you linked, demonstrating that the behavior and priorities of these people are indeed misguided and violent. That's not what I suspect, that's what I know, and there is no shortage of data to back this up. The thing I suspect is that the violence these people visit on themselves contributes more to their situation than lack of access to government services. I didn't say that more government services wouldn't help at all. By the way, the Baltimore Sun article you cited is not about poor white people. It is about poor urban blacks in West Baltimore. That's not really relevant to this discussion, because blacks have faced enslavement and discrimination for centuries in this country. Discrimination against blacks, especially in hiring practices, has helped the poor white people we are talking about. Having to now compete against non-whites for jobs is a significant component of the poor white anger in this country, although many don't want to admit that.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

it's not enough to live on. There's a plethora of data contradicting everything you say, Why don't you cite some of it, then? I can certainly cite plenty of data showing he's mostly right. For example, the poor mostly do not work, they mostly have good quality housing, and they have lots of food. http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf https://www.brookings.edu/2015/01/08/weight-and-social-mobility-taking-the-long-view-on-childhood-obesity/ https://www.brookings.edu/2015/01/08/weight-and-social-mobil... Concretely, what do you think he's wrong about, and where is the data supporting your claims?

ajamesm 10y ago
Because the parent comment made the original assertion, and that's how the game works. "The earth is flat, prove me wrong!" no thanks. Also, your second link is literally 642 pages, please point to the relevant part.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  The second link is the American housing survey, and it describes in detail a huge number of qualities of housing. For example (table 2-2, page 48), 2.75% of poor households have a sagging roof. 66% of poor households (table 2-3, page 50) have at least 2 rooms/person and 94% have at least 1 room/person. 3.5% (table 2-4, page 52) lack a complete kitchen. I don't know of any single characteristic to cite to prove that the conditions of poor people's housing are good; but whatever specific characteristic you want info on, you can probably find it in that document.

protomyth 10y ago

Just a statistical note: infant mortality is accounted for differently in many countries. Due to how the US counts it, parts of Europe and other countries will often have a lower number. You would think it would be apples to apples, but it's not.