6 ms·

From an intelligent life angle, what would really save us is that, aside from a number of planets to observe, we haven't really been all that interesting until

by mjevans 10y ago

From an intelligent life angle, what would really save us is that, aside from a number of planets to observe, we haven't really been all that interesting until the last 100-200 years; when we started actually emitting signs of intelligent life in to space.

riffraff 10y ago
Ah, but this is only true about we, humans rather than earth/solar system. It cannot be excluded that other sources of radio have been around here in the past :)
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  It also assumes that outside observers have the same difficulty understanding the make-up and probable evolution of a system as we do. If they were able to observe that Earth would have some properties they were interested in, or would be a likely candidate for such, then they wouldn't need us to announce our presence to guess it.
  - mkstowegnv 10y ago
    IMHO the aliens will not be specifically seeking life that is intelligent. Singularities and interstellar traveling alien civilizations share a problem. If one is in essence immortal the only purpose that can endure forever is the pursuit of new knowledge. Even if alien entities are able to learn all there is to know about all the other sciences, biology will be inexhaustible as the novel patterns that can be produced by evolution are effectively infinite. The biosphere of just our planet where the latest estimates are that there are a trillion species if you count all the microorganisms, probably contains more information than all the lifeless planets and stars in the galaxy combined. The aliens will value biodiversity more than we do. And if they arrive they will oppress us "only" to the extent required to counteract our propensity to cause species extinctions (including our suicidal alteration of the planet's climate). I actually would prefer that the Singularity or the aliens arrive sooner rather than later as I have less and less hope of our species getting its act together on its own.
    - njharman 10y ago
      Thinking that pursuit of knowledge is only activity for immortal is naively idealistic. Elimination of of all life not like me. Or simply eliminate life that might singularity and become a threat. Even if, who's to say one aliens pursuit of knowledge latest experiment dose not require and earth sized amount of raw materials.
      - mkstowegnv 10y ago
        Our aggression reflects the zero sum physical resource context of our evolutionary past. Knowledge in contrast grows fastest through cooperation. As power including the power to defend oneself grows with knowledge, knowledge seeking entities will quickly evolve to maximize cooperation. And as many have pointed out, unlike most of our sci fi, it is very unlikely for two alien civilizations to meet where their technology levels are similar - one will be permanently vastly advantaged over the other. Aggression will be pointless - the pecking order will be obvious. As to your last point I am sure lifeless planets will do for any experiments.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      >> biology will be inexhaustible as the novel patterns that can be produced by evolution are effectively infinite But why do you assume they would be interested in observing the patterns that actually have been produced, instead of running high-precision evolutionary emulators that can generate patterns that could be produced at a much higher rate, and maybe even some automated filters to condense it down to "interesting" stuff? It's still knowledge, and there's no innate value scale for knowledge which says that things that have "actually happened" are more valuable. In fact, how's that for Fermi paradox? Civilizations that are sufficiently technologically advanced to communicate, much less travel, across the stars, are also sufficiently technologically advanced to simulate the things they are interested about and get answers faster that way. Basically, the end result of any civilization is creating, maintaining and expanding a simulation of the universe. Which, of course, goes recursive...
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
andrepd 10y ago
Hmm, that's actually not true. For example a spectroscopical analysis of the composition of be earth's atmosphere would reveal very unusual properties which would be a sure telling sign of photosynthesis, and that has been occurring for billions of years.

by mjevans 10y ago

riffraff 10y ago

Ah, but this is only true about we, humans rather than earth/solar system. It cannot be excluded that other sources of radio have been around here in the past :)

Normal_gaussian 10y ago
It also assumes that outside observers have the same difficulty understanding the make-up and probable evolution of a system as we do. If they were able to observe that Earth would have some properties they were interested in, or would be a likely candidate for such, then they wouldn't need us to announce our presence to guess it.
- mkstowegnv 10y ago
  IMHO the aliens will not be specifically seeking life that is intelligent. Singularities and interstellar traveling alien civilizations share a problem. If one is in essence immortal the only purpose that can endure forever is the pursuit of new knowledge. Even if alien entities are able to learn all there is to know about all the other sciences, biology will be inexhaustible as the novel patterns that can be produced by evolution are effectively infinite. The biosphere of just our planet where the latest estimates are that there are a trillion species if you count all the microorganisms, probably contains more information than all the lifeless planets and stars in the galaxy combined. The aliens will value biodiversity more than we do. And if they arrive they will oppress us "only" to the extent required to counteract our propensity to cause species extinctions (including our suicidal alteration of the planet's climate). I actually would prefer that the Singularity or the aliens arrive sooner rather than later as I have less and less hope of our species getting its act together on its own.
  - njharman 10y ago
    Thinking that pursuit of knowledge is only activity for immortal is naively idealistic. Elimination of of all life not like me. Or simply eliminate life that might singularity and become a threat. Even if, who's to say one aliens pursuit of knowledge latest experiment dose not require and earth sized amount of raw materials.
    - mkstowegnv 10y ago
      Our aggression reflects the zero sum physical resource context of our evolutionary past. Knowledge in contrast grows fastest through cooperation. As power including the power to defend oneself grows with knowledge, knowledge seeking entities will quickly evolve to maximize cooperation. And as many have pointed out, unlike most of our sci fi, it is very unlikely for two alien civilizations to meet where their technology levels are similar - one will be permanently vastly advantaged over the other. Aggression will be pointless - the pecking order will be obvious. As to your last point I am sure lifeless planets will do for any experiments.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    >> biology will be inexhaustible as the novel patterns that can be produced by evolution are effectively infinite But why do you assume they would be interested in observing the patterns that actually have been produced, instead of running high-precision evolutionary emulators that can generate patterns that could be produced at a much higher rate, and maybe even some automated filters to condense it down to "interesting" stuff? It's still knowledge, and there's no innate value scale for knowledge which says that things that have "actually happened" are more valuable. In fact, how's that for Fermi paradox? Civilizations that are sufficiently technologically advanced to communicate, much less travel, across the stars, are also sufficiently technologically advanced to simulate the things they are interested about and get answers faster that way. Basically, the end result of any civilization is creating, maintaining and expanding a simulation of the universe. Which, of course, goes recursive...
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago

andrepd 10y ago

Hmm, that's actually not true. For example a spectroscopical analysis of the composition of be earth's atmosphere would reveal very unusual properties which would be a sure telling sign of photosynthesis, and that has been occurring for billions of years.