5 ms·

Retributive justice isn't for the the criminals, it's to deter other crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retributive_justice#Principles https://en.wikipedia.o

Retributive justice isn't for the the criminals, it's to deter other crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retributive_justice#Principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retributive_justice#Principles Personally, I think we've gone too far down the 'retributive' route without corresponding investments in rehabilitation, but a lot of Americans prefer to lock the door and throw away the key.

tamana 10y ago
Why does retributive justice require prisoners not making chitchat?
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  Because not being able to talk and/and bilking their families is indeed a form of punishment?
nitrogen 10y ago
Does it actually work for that, though?
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  Well, comparing criminal justice models is by definition difficult since it's deeply embedded in the society. You can look at other societies where they spend more time rehabilitating offenders (e.g. Norway), and Norway does have lower crime rates, but which way does causation run? You can argue that rehabilitation lowers crime rates, or you can argue that low crime rates makes the society tolerant of relatively lenient punishment. And if it turns out that retributive punishment does work effectively, are you willing to pay for increased crime rates just to find out that our current system is alright?
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    And if it turns out that retributive punishment does work effectively, are you willing to pay for increased crime rates just to find out that our current system is alright? This type of what-if paralysis isn't rationally supportable. Some similar examples to show where the logic fails: And if particle accelerators do produce black holes, are you willing to destroy the planet just to prove it? And if it turns out Cthulhu does live on the moon, are you willing to unleash its wrath by visiting? Instead of paranoid fear of worst-case hypotheticals, we should be using empirical evidence to guide decisions. We can look at other countries. We can look at differences between states and counties. We can conduct experiments in smaller areas and roll them out over time if they work. Or we can just have some basic human empathy.
- Fjolsvith 10y ago
  It did for me. My second conviction sent me down for 7.5 years and it was only about 5 years into that bit that I said, "okay, I quit. I'll be good now."
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    If you don't mind my asking, do you think there could have been a faster way, or was that probably the only way to reach you?
    - Fjolsvith 10y ago
      I believe it is subjective to the individual. If a person doesn't have any ties (relatives or friends on the outside) they might never get to that point. What was key for me was that before I went first went down, I was a hobbyist programmer and had an independent, many-years long MMO game project under way. Being in prison chafed at me horrible because every day I felt like nothing was being accomplished towards it! I knew I was loosing time from completing that goal. Its funny how the goal that I wanted to work towards changed from that game to a successful life.

tamana 10y ago

Why does retributive justice require prisoners not making chitchat?

smallnamespace 10y ago
Because not being able to talk and/and bilking their families is indeed a form of punishment?

nitrogen 10y ago

Does it actually work for that, though?

smallnamespace 10y ago
Well, comparing criminal justice models is by definition difficult since it's deeply embedded in the society. You can look at other societies where they spend more time rehabilitating offenders (e.g. Norway), and Norway does have lower crime rates, but which way does causation run? You can argue that rehabilitation lowers crime rates, or you can argue that low crime rates makes the society tolerant of relatively lenient punishment. And if it turns out that retributive punishment does work effectively, are you willing to pay for increased crime rates just to find out that our current system is alright?
- nitrogen 10y ago
  And if it turns out that retributive punishment does work effectively, are you willing to pay for increased crime rates just to find out that our current system is alright? This type of what-if paralysis isn't rationally supportable. Some similar examples to show where the logic fails: And if particle accelerators do produce black holes, are you willing to destroy the planet just to prove it? And if it turns out Cthulhu does live on the moon, are you willing to unleash its wrath by visiting? Instead of paranoid fear of worst-case hypotheticals, we should be using empirical evidence to guide decisions. We can look at other countries. We can look at differences between states and counties. We can conduct experiments in smaller areas and roll them out over time if they work. Or we can just have some basic human empathy.
Fjolsvith 10y ago
It did for me. My second conviction sent me down for 7.5 years and it was only about 5 years into that bit that I said, "okay, I quit. I'll be good now."
- nitrogen 10y ago
  If you don't mind my asking, do you think there could have been a faster way, or was that probably the only way to reach you?
  - Fjolsvith 10y ago
    I believe it is subjective to the individual. If a person doesn't have any ties (relatives or friends on the outside) they might never get to that point. What was key for me was that before I went first went down, I was a hobbyist programmer and had an independent, many-years long MMO game project under way. Being in prison chafed at me horrible because every day I felt like nothing was being accomplished towards it! I knew I was loosing time from completing that goal. Its funny how the goal that I wanted to work towards changed from that game to a successful life.