5 ms·

I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with flower crowns?

varjag 10y ago
You are experiencing a rather typical Russian reaction to an expression of national identity by people others than Russians.
- viach 10y ago
  You just said something about the whole nation, right?
  - varjag 10y ago
    I said "typical", not everyone. But guess you have a point, even if not in the way you intended. Any other reaction is so unusual these days that a generalization is unavoidable.
    - viach 10y ago
      I see your point. But I think that with this kind of generalization you feed the fire of hate, imo
      - varjag 10y ago
        Any retort on any sensitive topic can be argued as fanning the flames of hate, as disagreement clearly not going to pacify anyone. The problem with is, if you don't express your dissent, hold yourself "above all that", bite your tongue, you let them run their narrative unchallenged. Being from Belarus I used to have plenty acquaintances and relatives in Russia; perhaps three of them did not succumb to self-righteous jingoism and hate in the last couple years. I admire the few people there who have strength and stamina to remain sane. But they are not any more representative of Russia now than few sane Germans were of Germany in 1939.
trhway 10y ago
> what does any of this have to do with flower crowns? the national embroidered dresses ("vyshivanki") are used as a symbol by those nationalists forces in Ukraine today who explicitly claim the heritage of the OUN/UPA (the organizations which intentionally performed the mentioned above genocide in order to advance the nationalist goals), and as the original comment and the article say the floral crowns are being added to that set of symbols. They look nice until you understand what they are just a beautiful facade for. Until you feel a smell of burnt flesh - in 2014 they burned alive (surrounded the building and thrown Molotov cocktails inside) 42 pro-Russian activists in Odessa - the popular "traditional" method of dealing with your opponents in Western Ukraine under the OUN/UPA. There is a popular these days Ukrainian song about a celebrated leader of UPA - Roman Shuskevich - and his forces grilling on fire and impaling alive communists and the members of NKVD (USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs who was fighting OUN/UPA left over after Red Army freed Ukraine from Nazi) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35JT6Ppvf-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35JT6Ppvf-w - it isn't just imagination of the song's author, it is actually pretty correct historically. Also, in 199x the Western Ukraine nationalists fought Russians in Chechnya, and their treatment of Russian POWs is well known for the cruelty. So it is a little bit hard to appreciate the cuteness of something used a symbol for such history.
- empthought 10y ago
  Again what does all this have to do with flower crowns and embroidered dresses? They predate the twentieth-century conflicts by hundreds of years. The shamrock is a national symbol of Ireland despite Irish nationalist atrocities throughout the years. The traditional ceremonial dress in Japan is used despite the crimes committed by the Japanese military. There is literally no society or culture in history that is blameless; why spout off about Ukrainian embroidery and floral arrangement? Could it simply be another continuation of the centuries-long campaign to suppress Ukrainian culture?
  - trhway 10y ago
    >Again what does all this have to do with flower crowns and embroidered dresses? ask the nationalists. It was the article and the original comment author who originally brought it up as a symbol of Ukranian nationalism. I just mentioned most notable examples of that nationalism. >the centuries-long campaign to suppress Ukrainian culture you obviously just don't know what you're talking about.

You are experiencing a rather typical Russian reaction to an expression of national identity by people others than Russians.

viach 10y ago
You just said something about the whole nation, right?
- varjag 10y ago
  I said "typical", not everyone. But guess you have a point, even if not in the way you intended. Any other reaction is so unusual these days that a generalization is unavoidable.
  - viach 10y ago
    I see your point. But I think that with this kind of generalization you feed the fire of hate, imo
    - varjag 10y ago
      Any retort on any sensitive topic can be argued as fanning the flames of hate, as disagreement clearly not going to pacify anyone. The problem with is, if you don't express your dissent, hold yourself "above all that", bite your tongue, you let them run their narrative unchallenged. Being from Belarus I used to have plenty acquaintances and relatives in Russia; perhaps three of them did not succumb to self-righteous jingoism and hate in the last couple years. I admire the few people there who have strength and stamina to remain sane. But they are not any more representative of Russia now than few sane Germans were of Germany in 1939.

trhway 10y ago

> what does any of this have to do with flower crowns? the national embroidered dresses ("vyshivanki") are used as a symbol by those nationalists forces in Ukraine today who explicitly claim the heritage of the OUN/UPA (the organizations which intentionally performed the mentioned above genocide in order to advance the nationalist goals), and as the original comment and the article say the floral crowns are being added to that set of symbols. They look nice until you understand what they are just a beautiful facade for. Until you feel a smell of burnt flesh - in 2014 they burned alive (surrounded the building and thrown Molotov cocktails inside) 42 pro-Russian activists in Odessa - the popular "traditional" method of dealing with your opponents in Western Ukraine under the OUN/UPA. There is a popular these days Ukrainian song about a celebrated leader of UPA - Roman Shuskevich - and his forces grilling on fire and impaling alive communists and the members of NKVD (USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs who was fighting OUN/UPA left over after Red Army freed Ukraine from Nazi) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35JT6Ppvf-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35JT6Ppvf-w - it isn't just imagination of the song's author, it is actually pretty correct historically. Also, in 199x the Western Ukraine nationalists fought Russians in Chechnya, and their treatment of Russian POWs is well known for the cruelty. So it is a little bit hard to appreciate the cuteness of something used a symbol for such history.

empthought 10y ago
Again what does all this have to do with flower crowns and embroidered dresses? They predate the twentieth-century conflicts by hundreds of years. The shamrock is a national symbol of Ireland despite Irish nationalist atrocities throughout the years. The traditional ceremonial dress in Japan is used despite the crimes committed by the Japanese military. There is literally no society or culture in history that is blameless; why spout off about Ukrainian embroidery and floral arrangement? Could it simply be another continuation of the centuries-long campaign to suppress Ukrainian culture?
- trhway 10y ago
  >Again what does all this have to do with flower crowns and embroidered dresses? ask the nationalists. It was the article and the original comment author who originally brought it up as a symbol of Ukranian nationalism. I just mentioned most notable examples of that nationalism. >the centuries-long campaign to suppress Ukrainian culture you obviously just don't know what you're talking about.