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Previous war was between Ukrainian People Republic and fake Kharkiv People Republic createded by Russia. OUN/UPA does not collaborate with Nazi after declaring
by lisivka 10y ago
Previous war was between Ukrainian People Republic and fake Kharkiv People Republic createded by Russia.
OUN/UPA does not collaborate with Nazi after declaring of independence of Ukraine in Lviv in September 1941. More than 600 of OUN members were executed in Babi Yar by Germans. Leader of OUN, Stepan Bandera was German prisoner until end of war. See Nuremberg documents for more details. Just warning: it is officially prohibited to review results of Nuremberg process.
Quote from Wikipedia: A captured German document of November 25, 1941 (Nuremberg Trial O14-USSR) ordered: "It has been ascertained that the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated..."[43]
Yep, main target of OUN was to free Ukraine from Polish colonists and stop Polonization of Ukrainians (AKA Pacification). However, Volynia massacre was response to German operation against Ukrainian partisans with help of local Polish military police formed from Polish colonists at territory of Ukraine. OUN/UPA were not involved as organizations, only their members. Official documents of OUN/UPA stated that they wanted to keep peace with Polish people at that time because of greater threat from Germany and USSR.
> No wonder that Russians in Donbass(30+%) and Russians in Crimea(60%) felt that it is "time to go" when the very first act of the new regime during the first days in power was the "[Anti-Russian] language law".
Russians are always free to go back to Russia. Please, tell me more about "[Anti-Russian] language law". I never heard about that. Constitution of Ukraine says that Russian language is protected at Ukraine.
- trhway 10y agothanks to Internet, everybody can go and read the facts in their full set. I'll comment only on 1 thing: >However, Volynia massacre was response to German operation against Ukrainian partisans with help of local Polish military police formed from Polish colonists at territory of Ukraine. even if that were true (which it isn't, again - facts are available on the Internet), only in the mind of rabid nationalists can a genocide be a response to military operation.
- lisivka 10y agoYep, when one side fires whole village with habitats - it is just military operation. When other side does same in response - it is genocide. When Russians killed 7 millions of Ukrainians (Holodomor) - it was minor economic problem. When Ukrainian will kill even few hundreds of thousands of Russians - it will be major genocide. Documents about Polish military police at Volyn: Motyka G. Polski policjant na Wołyniu // «Karta». — 1998. — № 24.
- trhway 10y agoagain, that is exactly that separates Ukranian nationalists today from the normal people. Germans committed genocide, tragic fact, accepted, and they don't try to defend it, to provide reasons trying to justify it. Because normal people understand that there is no "genocide because ...", there is just genocide. USSR committed a number of genocides, against aristocracy, against clergy, against peasants with the Ukranian Holodomor being part of that one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93...) as it was across the Ukraine and Russia agricultural regions (and yep, my grandparents, peasants from Kiev region, ended up in the end of 193x, the whole family with 5 children, in a labor camp on some large industrial site in West Russia - that how being fortunate looked back then.). Those genocides are tragic historic facts, nobody is trying to defend it. Only Ukranian nationalist are trying to balance the genocide committed by Bandera's OUN/UPA with the various other stuff. Again, if you wanna discuss Holodomor, or insufficient attention and emphasis on it in modern Russian politics for example - be my guest, i pretty much agree with it. Yet Russians dont' say that Holodomor was a response to something. Soviet Army committed a bunch of atrocities against German population - it is also very unpopular topic in Russia, yet nobody is trying to frame it as a response for the German actions. >When Russians killed 7 millions of Ukrainians (Holodomor) do you really think that it were specifically ethnic Russian policemen that came all the way to enforce "law of Spikelets" and passports laws, not the local communists/activists/police/kolhoz administration? My grandparents i mentioned above had never said anything bad about Russians, it is the local kolhoz administration, Party officials and the whole USSR government system, independent of ethnicity, that had always been target of their hot ("matyugi") words. >When Ukrainian will kill even few hundreds of thousands of Russians "even few hundreds of thousands of Russians" - as i said there huge difference between normal people and Ukranian nationalists.
- reitanqild 10y ago> Just warning: it is officially prohibited to review results of Nuremberg process. I googled this back and fort a number of times to no avail. Do you have direct pointers?
- lisivka 10y agoI assume that trhway is from Russia. It is law in Russia.
- reitanqild 10y agoThanks > I assume that trhway is from Russia. I have given up on categorizing trhway :-) > It is law in Russia. OK, I see. I only googled in English which might explain the lack of results. (The closest thing I found was that there was no possibility of appeal for the convicted.) Still a bit confused as to why Russians would create a law about the results of the Nuremberg trials.
- lisivka 10y agoI read recently that Russian court said that Soviets are not executed Polish officers in Katyn because of date presented at Nuremberg tribunal and because it is forbidden to review results of Nuremberg tribunal by law. :-/