8 ms·
Novi, MI is very different than Mountain View, CA! Convincing people to accept winter will be difficult. It's one thing if it's a "Let's change the world!" pi
by mathattack 10y ago
Novi, MI is very different than Mountain View, CA! Convincing people to accept winter will be difficult. It's one thing if it's a "Let's change the world!" pitch from a technical genius. It's another if it's "Let's supply GM" from a business genius.
- andrewjf 10y agoI moved from Farmington Hills, MI (across the street from Novi) to San Jose, no way I'd go back there. 70% because of the winter.
- sparky_ 10y agoI'm an Austrian living in SJ; the weather different is life and lifestyle altering.
- geogra4 10y agoOh that's silly. You drive to work you drive home. Maybe you go out to dinner then you go to bed. What lifestyle are you talking about? Sf would be one thing but sj and mv are really not so different from novi or farmington. Just suburbs
- webkike 10y agoUh, some people just don't like the cold? It does get very cold. And it's pretty insulting to just assume someone's like follows a pattern of "You drive to work you drive home. Maybe you go out to dinner then you go to bed". Some people like to take a hike or run every week, for a example. Or have the ability to bike to work year round.
- nine_k 10y agoNYC has winter, but people hike, run, and bike year round. What's funnier, Stockholm has winter, longer than NYC, but people do the same year round.
- Reason077 10y agoNeither Stockholm nor NYC have a winter anything like what parts of Michigan get - both are relatively temperate, coastal cities. Michigan is pretty much Canada!
- pyre 10y ago"Parts of Michigan" is disingenuous because we are specifically talking about Novi, MI which is in SE Michigan rather than places like (e.g.) Houghton, MI.
- serge2k 10y agoDetroit is literally north of Canada.
- ZoeZoeBee 10y agoFYI not a single month is Stockholm warmer than Detroit...
- Reason077 10y agoNot true - December, January, and February are colder, on average, in Detroit. In January, for example, Stockholm's average daily temp is -2.8C(27F) while Detroit's is -5.1C(23F). Outside of the winter months, the rest of the year is warmer in Detroit.
- rjsw 10y agoI like the winter. I have stayed in Novi when working in Detroit and being able to go skiing after work was great.
- glass_of_water 10y agoYou have to drive hours north to go skiing though and even then the hills are pretty tiny.
- rjsw 10y agoNope. It was a while ago so I checked Google maps for an idea of how long it took, 21 min from Novi to Mount Brighton. It is a small hill but was fine for something to do in the evening.
- ghaff 10y agoMount Brighton is really tiny :-) As I recall, when my parents lived near there, You had snowmaking guns on towers at the base that could blow snow onto the "summit." But really the Ann Arbor area isn't bad. I'm always a bit amused by discussions like this one in which so many voices seemingly argue that for reasons of weather, culture, and software engineering concentration, life really isn't worth living outside the Bay area even if you need to spend 4 hours a day commuting while sharing a 500 sq. ft. apartment with 2 roommates. The idea that it's questionable for Google to establish a location in Michigan for automobile research rather than keeping it in the great Silicon Valley is beyond funny.
- curiouscat321 10y agoThe groupthink at HN can be very severe at times. SE Michigan (especially Ann Arbor) is a lovely place! Lots of similarities to SV - smart people, culture, great schools. Plus, insanely cheap. The area is going to be a hotbed for tech companies with all the automotive talent around. It's ridiculously cheaper to open up offices in SE Michigan instead of constantly moving engineers elsewhere.
- seanp2k2 10y agoI also moved from metro Detroit to the Bay Area, and no way I'd move back. The people there don't believe they can make any changes in their lives or the world, so they don't. I have a ton of friends with sad stories out there now. I've helped a few of them get out to California and they'd never go back either. It's a place that crushes all of your dreams. Everyone there tries to tell you that you're stupid, that your idea is stupid, and that you should just give up. On the plus side, Ann Arbor is tolerable, but small. There are no real cities in Michigan. The closest is Chicago, and while I'd love to live there, the terrible winters (sub-zero temps with 40mph winds in the city corridors due to the Great Lakes and walls of skyscrapers), lack of mountains, and lack of sunshine would make it hard. Rent and food are cheap, but you're in the middle of nowhere with not many interesting + motivated people to talk with, and there's not much actual good food (people there can't afford $50pp meals). The young people are mostly leaving (or they want to). There are a lot of crazy / malicious business people out there as well (I experienced many of them doing basically computer consulting). Mountain biking out there is great (look up MMBA if you're interested) but the mosquitos will eat you alive if you stop, even for 30 seconds. The lakes are nice and cottages (usually smaller homes on lakes, usually "up north") there are well within reach of the middle-class. I'm done with nasty people with nasty attitudes. They can keep their murder mitten.
- therobot24 10y ago>> I'm done with nasty people with nasty attitudes. They can keep their murder mitten. Sounds like you're the one with the nasty attitude. Currently live in metro detroit. Have had the opposite experience as you.
- quotemstr 10y agoIt's not just the winter bit --- it's the "tech desert" effect, where if you move somewhere and it doesn't work out, you feel trapped. Moving in general is difficult. I've have been going through a very difficult decision myself. Do I want to move to a non-traditional (i.e., not Seattle, SF, or New York) city for an interesting and well-paying position? Maybe? Yes? No? Tons of tradeoffs. I can certainly understand this guy deciding to stay home.
- asimuvPR 10y agoTrue. Plus its not like he will have an issue finding a job somewhere else (if not starting his own company with VC money). The thing Detroit doesn't get is that tech has a culture that is bound to geography. They used to have the same culture back when American cars were actually made in Detroit. But they killed it.
- chaostheory 10y agoNot sure about GM, but I think Ford has an SF Bay Area office.
- jstandard 10y agoDetroit does get it. Almost all major auto manufacturers and many Tier 1 suppliers have R&D labs in Silicon Valley. http://www.autonews.com/section/map502&iframe=true&width=960&height=540 http://www.autonews.com/section/map502&iframe=true&width=960... These folks are quite active in the startup autotech community, hosting hackathons and other events. I run an autotech related startup and find the OEM offices in Silicon Valley very receptive to new tech.
- asimuvPR 10y agoThat is true. Thanks for pointing it out. My point is that outside of the techlabs, Detroit culture is very bland. Moving from tech to automotive is a big culture shock.
- 10y ago
- lcarlson 10y agoThere is actually alot of engineering talent in Michigan. I can understand the move. Not sure about Novi though.... Ann Arbor is great though! (I'm biased)
- pm90 10y agoYou might be right in that there is more mechanical/industrial/automative engineering going on in Michigan, but SV will definitely beat out any other area as Software Engineering's Mecca for the foreseeable future.
- Animats 10y agoGoogle has contracted with FCA (Fiat-Chrysler) to convert 100 minivans to self-driving. That will be done at Novi MI.[1] This is apparently Google's idea, not Chrysler's.[2] The CEO's comments indicate that he's intimidated by Google. [1] http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2016/05/25/google-open-self-driving-car-testing-center-novi/84906436/ http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2016/05/25/google-open... [2] http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2016/05/06/pacifica-look-physically-different-google-tech/84000166/ http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2016/05/06/pa...
- Animats 10y agoThere's a rationale for this. Google can either become an auto manufacturer, or become a supplier to auto manufacturers. Becoming an automaker is very expensive, very complicated, far from Google's expertise, and not highly profitable even if successful. Becoming a supplier of self-driving technology is likely to be profitable, but won't require huge amounts of capital or the risk of competing in a crowded auto industry. So Google/Alphabet has apparently decided to become an automotive supplier. That means establishing a presence near auto companies. That's not a bad thing. The Google people need to be talking to auto stylists and engineers. Google has good self-driving technology, but their stylistic integration of the sensors with the vehicle is terrible. The sensor people and the stylists need to spend lots of time together arguing and fighting until the sensors are either invisible or attractive. Then the Google people need to work with the hardcore auto engineers about dealing with the real world of automobiles, where there's ice, snow, slush, potholes, rust, dirt, and inept or nonexistent maintenance. They'll need self-defrosting sensors, washing sprays, automatic realignment at power-on, dirt detection, and all those real-world problems Google hasn't addressed yet. They'll need to drive over the bump road and skid on the skid pan, then make sure everything still works. That's what needs to happen in Novi. That's the real non-fun engineering that needs to be done.
- toomuchtodo 10y agoSounds like a great opportunity for Tesla to expand its autopilot team, which is still located down the street from Google (unless they've moved from Palo Alto to Fremont and I'm not aware).
- mathattack 10y agoExactly. Great business decision, but less interesting for engineers with many options.