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Decline in prosperity? You have no idea, you arrogant idiot. Not necessary. His intentions are good and I appreciate that lionhearted had the courage to bring

by tsally 17y ago

Decline in prosperity? You have no idea, you arrogant idiot. Not necessary. His intentions are good and I appreciate that lionhearted had the courage to bring up an uncommon point of view, even if it is misguided. He's honestly and openly asking questions and the implication of inferiority is not intentional.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"Not necessary. His intentions are good" Yeah? I thought he was just being inflammatory and arrogant. "I appreciate that lionhearted had the courage to bring up an uncommon point of view, " When you are ignorant you don't need courage. I can bring in all kinds of "uncommon views" (hey George Bush was the real planner of 9/11!! Really! Because I say so!) if I don't have to substantiate them. I find his claim that India has declined since Independence from the British ignorant, and yes, idiotic. "He's honestly and openly asking questions and the implication of inferiority is not intentional." No he wasn't. He was making bigoted and inflammatory claims. My ancestors died in British jails. My paternal grandfather never recovered his health from British torture for participating in a peaceful rally asking for independence. It wasn't that far away. I understand and appreciate you feel differently.
- tsally 17y ago
  I find his claim that India has declined since Independence from the British ignorant, and yes, idiotic. I'm arguing against his point of view as well, but name calling doesn't accomplish anything. Anger doesn't make the world a better place (even if it's well justified). My ancestors died in British jails. It's likely that some of mine did too (Irish), but honestly I don't think that makes me any more qualified to speak on this issue. I understand this topic is very emotional for a lot of people, but it's best to avoid bringing in stuff like this. I think it ruins objectivity. For what it's worth, I agreed with a lot of your points in your original post. I just think you're undermining yourself with the name calling.
  - Semiapies 17y ago
    He's dealing with a self-described "student of history" who puts up a slew of easily-demolished false claims before retreating behind Well, gee, don't you think the British meant well in conquering and occupying your country? There's nothing inappropriate about his tone.
    - lionhearted 17y ago
      > He's dealing with a self-described "student of history" who puts up a slew of easily-demolished false claims So easily demolish them. I'm here for discussion, if I made a mistake, let me know. I said I wanted to hear and address opposing points of view, and I'm clarifying and trying to answer all the questions and feedback I get. Actually, I'll be honest - the format I'm getting responses in is difficult for me to keep up with. People write eight questions/counterpoints. I answer all eight. Then they nitpick two of them and ask for all sorts of data and proof from me. They don't say, "Hey, those six points you made? Those are good points, and I now agree." They just ignore the responses and pick a single sentence or two that they can quote out of context and nitpick with. But I'm trying to address and answer them all in good faith - if someone takes the time to write an intelligent response to me, I'll try take the time to cite clarifying and supporting information. So if I'm making false claims, please do point them out and let's discuss. I've stated, I don't know, 30-70 historical facts in almost 10 replies. I've given my personal opinions on governance based on those. If you disagree, jump in, I've had some really good discussions in this thread, and I'm learning, and apparently some other people are learning because they're voting up my comments and the people I'm discussing with, which is good. > before retreating behind Well, gee, don't you think the British meant well in conquering and occupying your country? Mate, it's called having a discussion. Someone has a drastically different opinion than me, and instead of just putting my fingers in my ears and saying "la la la I'm right la la la" I ask what their personal feelings are. The snark doesn't add much, but if you feel I'm mistaken, then go ahead and weigh in, point it out. If I'm mistaken on facts, I want to be corrected, and a couple people have pointed out other facts for me to consider and linked to them. If you don't agree with my opinions, do feel welcome to share your own, and perhaps I can evolve my opinions if you make a good case. Don't just say, "slew of easily-demolished false claims" without pointing out what they are - go ahead and demolish them. It doesn't hurt my feelings, and we all can learn from it.
- CapitalistCartr 17y ago
  Plinkplonk. you already have solid facts and a good position. Outrage and anger detract from the discussion.

by tsally 17y ago

plinkplonk 17y ago

"Not necessary. His intentions are good" Yeah? I thought he was just being inflammatory and arrogant. "I appreciate that lionhearted had the courage to bring up an uncommon point of view, " When you are ignorant you don't need courage. I can bring in all kinds of "uncommon views" (hey George Bush was the real planner of 9/11!! Really! Because I say so!) if I don't have to substantiate them. I find his claim that India has declined since Independence from the British ignorant, and yes, idiotic. "He's honestly and openly asking questions and the implication of inferiority is not intentional." No he wasn't. He was making bigoted and inflammatory claims. My ancestors died in British jails. My paternal grandfather never recovered his health from British torture for participating in a peaceful rally asking for independence. It wasn't that far away. I understand and appreciate you feel differently.

tsally 17y ago
I find his claim that India has declined since Independence from the British ignorant, and yes, idiotic. I'm arguing against his point of view as well, but name calling doesn't accomplish anything. Anger doesn't make the world a better place (even if it's well justified). My ancestors died in British jails. It's likely that some of mine did too (Irish), but honestly I don't think that makes me any more qualified to speak on this issue. I understand this topic is very emotional for a lot of people, but it's best to avoid bringing in stuff like this. I think it ruins objectivity. For what it's worth, I agreed with a lot of your points in your original post. I just think you're undermining yourself with the name calling.
- Semiapies 17y ago
  He's dealing with a self-described "student of history" who puts up a slew of easily-demolished false claims before retreating behind Well, gee, don't you think the British meant well in conquering and occupying your country? There's nothing inappropriate about his tone.
  - lionhearted 17y ago
    > He's dealing with a self-described "student of history" who puts up a slew of easily-demolished false claims So easily demolish them. I'm here for discussion, if I made a mistake, let me know. I said I wanted to hear and address opposing points of view, and I'm clarifying and trying to answer all the questions and feedback I get. Actually, I'll be honest - the format I'm getting responses in is difficult for me to keep up with. People write eight questions/counterpoints. I answer all eight. Then they nitpick two of them and ask for all sorts of data and proof from me. They don't say, "Hey, those six points you made? Those are good points, and I now agree." They just ignore the responses and pick a single sentence or two that they can quote out of context and nitpick with. But I'm trying to address and answer them all in good faith - if someone takes the time to write an intelligent response to me, I'll try take the time to cite clarifying and supporting information. So if I'm making false claims, please do point them out and let's discuss. I've stated, I don't know, 30-70 historical facts in almost 10 replies. I've given my personal opinions on governance based on those. If you disagree, jump in, I've had some really good discussions in this thread, and I'm learning, and apparently some other people are learning because they're voting up my comments and the people I'm discussing with, which is good. > before retreating behind Well, gee, don't you think the British meant well in conquering and occupying your country? Mate, it's called having a discussion. Someone has a drastically different opinion than me, and instead of just putting my fingers in my ears and saying "la la la I'm right la la la" I ask what their personal feelings are. The snark doesn't add much, but if you feel I'm mistaken, then go ahead and weigh in, point it out. If I'm mistaken on facts, I want to be corrected, and a couple people have pointed out other facts for me to consider and linked to them. If you don't agree with my opinions, do feel welcome to share your own, and perhaps I can evolve my opinions if you make a good case. Don't just say, "slew of easily-demolished false claims" without pointing out what they are - go ahead and demolish them. It doesn't hurt my feelings, and we all can learn from it.
CapitalistCartr 17y ago
Plinkplonk. you already have solid facts and a good position. Outrage and anger detract from the discussion.