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Or maybe your perspective (which seems jaded) is a bit different than a lot of peoples? There is no reason that your friends and co-workers shouldnt overlap.

Or maybe your perspective (which seems jaded) is a bit different than a lot of peoples? There is no reason that your friends and co-workers shouldnt overlap. There is no reason you shouldn't love going to work. There is no reason you shouldn't be happy in the company of the people you're around the majority of your day. Your very post, is just you applying your own culture to a job. Part of your culture in the workplace is a detachment. Thats ok, everyone has their own thing, but you wouldn't fit into a place where people want to be inclusive, you would stand out and probably be considered an asshole by others. You see that your view on what should happen in a workplace is very different than mine. That would cause strife over time, it would reduce our ability to work together compared to people who shared our viewpoint... While your view is equally as valid as mine, and neither are more correct than the other, they are definitely different. Recognizing that difference is what the culture fit is all about. And your last line, comes of as purely cynical. I don't work longer for free because i like my coworkers... I still work the same regardless, but I tend to LIKE going to work more, and enjoy my time, and feel more invested in the company when I enjoy my coworkers and share a bond with them...

Jtsummers 10y ago
If leaving Friday and not seeing your coworkers again until Monday morning makes you think someone's an asshole, you've got a very skewed definition of asshole. Being friends/social with coworkers should be an opt-in experience, not mandatory for your employees. People have lives. There is no reason you shouldn't be happy in the company of the people you're around the majority of your day. I hope to god I never spend the majority of my day in the office ever again. Work is 8 hours for me, and I love it. I'll put in overtime when I need to, I don't mind. But I get 10 hours a day of not being at work while also awake, part of it in the middle of the day at lunch. I'm friends with several of my coworkers (to varying degrees of closeness), but we're all adults, most have families, and most have hobbies or other goals. We've got bodybuilders (including a former olympian), and other athletes. We've got artists. We've got gamers. We've got homebodies. We've got authors. If work=life is the only way to fit into your office, it had better be doing something life changing to justify that demand from your employees. Otherwise, you're stealing their precious time. The one thing we can never get back.
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  The clear thing here.. You're way of thinking is extremely close-minded... you're actually misrepresenting what I said to make your argument, because you're determined to make your point. Which, as I said, goes a long way. Your way of thinking is almost entirely pragmatic - and you know what, surrounded by other entirely pragmatic people, that works well. But around a group of people who value interpersonal relationships a bit more than you do, you would indeed be the asshole. That would create a pain point in yours or others' work days. And the biggest point of all of this, that you seem to miss, is nobody is forcing anything on you. The thing you dont like, is a style of culture, and you would avoid that culture, where others look for it... which is the entire point of the culture fit in the first place... you're making the argument FOR the culture fit by your very actions, you're proving the vast difference in cultures, and how they don't play nice together very well. You wouldnt want to work somewhere that values the things i value - and people that value what i value wouldnt want to work for you, probably - and thats ok - and thats why the whole concept exists and is important.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    > Which, as I said, goes a long way. Your way of thinking is almost entirely pragmatic - and you know what, surrounded by other entirely pragmatic people, that works well. But around a group of people who value interpersonal relationships a bit more than you do, you would indeed be the asshole. That would create a pain point in yours or others' work days. Wait, seriously? I rarely say this on forums. But, fuck you. I don't value interpersonal relationships? Literally the reason I live where I live is my approximately 50 good friends, about 20 close, and about 5 intimate friends. I could make a lot more money moving even 100 miles away, but I'd lose these relationships. So, again, fuck you. You're right. I'm not a cultural fit for companies like yours. Tell me where to apply so I can proudly display my rejection letter with the attached resume with big red "POOR CULTURE FIT" stamp.
  - jmcdiesel 10y ago
    Overreact much? At no point did I attack you or deserve that response. You've made it clear that your relationships are work aren't all that important to you. The context of this entire conversation is entirely focused on work... so why you would jump to relationships in general is baffling. You're really looking for a fight that isnt there, thats why you misrepresent what I said over and over...
mdorazio 10y ago
Sorry, but you seem to be reading your own interpretation into what I said. I agree that there is no reason your friends and coworkers shouldn't overlap. In fact, I am good friends with several of my coworkers. At the same time, there is also no reason why they have to overlap, either. You can work perfectly fine with people whom you have no interest in holding a friendship with. My "culture" as you put it is really an anti-culture, and it's the one that has worked for hundreds of years in workplaces around the world. I don't care whom I work with so long as they are professional, capable, and skilled in the tasks they need to do on a regular basis. What they wear, what their hobbies are, whether I enjoy talking to them about non-work activities, etc. has basically zero bearing on my evaluation of them as coworkers. In a very real sense, that approach is more open-minded and inclusive than yours, which prioritizes specific personal traits rather than job fit. That's the whole point of the post we are discussing in the first place - imposing a "culture fit" on a workplace to the exclusion of perfectly qualified people just doesn't make much sense. You might claim that employee retention and productivity are higher with a tight "culture" (though I would be extremely skeptical about that claim), but at what cost does that come? Or how about this - how well would the Apollo program have worked if NASA insisted that every engineer, astronaut, and flight controller had to be friends? If you want the best of the best, you deal with personal differences and still accomplish great things. My last line is indeed cynical because it comes from the perspective of having been around the block a few times when it comes to companies supporting employees vs. supporting bottom lines. I've also seen how paragons of "strong culture" fall apart once employees get out of their 20s and start to have a family and social life compete with work. I really do hope that you're able to continue working with people you enjoy hanging out with every day, but unfortunately real life tends to make that difficult over time.

Jtsummers 10y ago

If leaving Friday and not seeing your coworkers again until Monday morning makes you think someone's an asshole, you've got a very skewed definition of asshole. Being friends/social with coworkers should be an opt-in experience, not mandatory for your employees. People have lives. There is no reason you shouldn't be happy in the company of the people you're around the majority of your day. I hope to god I never spend the majority of my day in the office ever again. Work is 8 hours for me, and I love it. I'll put in overtime when I need to, I don't mind. But I get 10 hours a day of not being at work while also awake, part of it in the middle of the day at lunch. I'm friends with several of my coworkers (to varying degrees of closeness), but we're all adults, most have families, and most have hobbies or other goals. We've got bodybuilders (including a former olympian), and other athletes. We've got artists. We've got gamers. We've got homebodies. We've got authors. If work=life is the only way to fit into your office, it had better be doing something life changing to justify that demand from your employees. Otherwise, you're stealing their precious time. The one thing we can never get back.

jmcdiesel 10y ago
The clear thing here.. You're way of thinking is extremely close-minded... you're actually misrepresenting what I said to make your argument, because you're determined to make your point. Which, as I said, goes a long way. Your way of thinking is almost entirely pragmatic - and you know what, surrounded by other entirely pragmatic people, that works well. But around a group of people who value interpersonal relationships a bit more than you do, you would indeed be the asshole. That would create a pain point in yours or others' work days. And the biggest point of all of this, that you seem to miss, is nobody is forcing anything on you. The thing you dont like, is a style of culture, and you would avoid that culture, where others look for it... which is the entire point of the culture fit in the first place... you're making the argument FOR the culture fit by your very actions, you're proving the vast difference in cultures, and how they don't play nice together very well. You wouldnt want to work somewhere that values the things i value - and people that value what i value wouldnt want to work for you, probably - and thats ok - and thats why the whole concept exists and is important.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  > Which, as I said, goes a long way. Your way of thinking is almost entirely pragmatic - and you know what, surrounded by other entirely pragmatic people, that works well. But around a group of people who value interpersonal relationships a bit more than you do, you would indeed be the asshole. That would create a pain point in yours or others' work days. Wait, seriously? I rarely say this on forums. But, fuck you. I don't value interpersonal relationships? Literally the reason I live where I live is my approximately 50 good friends, about 20 close, and about 5 intimate friends. I could make a lot more money moving even 100 miles away, but I'd lose these relationships. So, again, fuck you. You're right. I'm not a cultural fit for companies like yours. Tell me where to apply so I can proudly display my rejection letter with the attached resume with big red "POOR CULTURE FIT" stamp.
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  Overreact much? At no point did I attack you or deserve that response. You've made it clear that your relationships are work aren't all that important to you. The context of this entire conversation is entirely focused on work... so why you would jump to relationships in general is baffling. You're really looking for a fight that isnt there, thats why you misrepresent what I said over and over...

mdorazio 10y ago

Sorry, but you seem to be reading your own interpretation into what I said. I agree that there is no reason your friends and coworkers shouldn't overlap. In fact, I am good friends with several of my coworkers. At the same time, there is also no reason why they have to overlap, either. You can work perfectly fine with people whom you have no interest in holding a friendship with. My "culture" as you put it is really an anti-culture, and it's the one that has worked for hundreds of years in workplaces around the world. I don't care whom I work with so long as they are professional, capable, and skilled in the tasks they need to do on a regular basis. What they wear, what their hobbies are, whether I enjoy talking to them about non-work activities, etc. has basically zero bearing on my evaluation of them as coworkers. In a very real sense, that approach is more open-minded and inclusive than yours, which prioritizes specific personal traits rather than job fit. That's the whole point of the post we are discussing in the first place - imposing a "culture fit" on a workplace to the exclusion of perfectly qualified people just doesn't make much sense. You might claim that employee retention and productivity are higher with a tight "culture" (though I would be extremely skeptical about that claim), but at what cost does that come? Or how about this - how well would the Apollo program have worked if NASA insisted that every engineer, astronaut, and flight controller had to be friends? If you want the best of the best, you deal with personal differences and still accomplish great things. My last line is indeed cynical because it comes from the perspective of having been around the block a few times when it comes to companies supporting employees vs. supporting bottom lines. I've also seen how paragons of "strong culture" fall apart once employees get out of their 20s and start to have a family and social life compete with work. I really do hope that you're able to continue working with people you enjoy hanging out with every day, but unfortunately real life tends to make that difficult over time.