5 ms·

Impractical and gimmicky. "You can literally plug in a new CPU -- or swap your CPU into a variety of devices. (Laptops, phones, tablets -- all powered by the s

by jbob2000 10y ago

Impractical and gimmicky. "You can literally plug in a new CPU -- or swap your CPU into a variety of devices. (Laptops, phones, tablets -- all powered by the same motherboard!)" My phone's battery would last 2 seconds if it used the processor my laptop would use. And my laptop would be slow as shit if it used a processor compatible with a mobile phone. "you simply PRINT OUT REPLACEMENT PARTS with a 3D printer" 3D printers have terrible quality. They are for prototyping. You'd be printing out replacement parts every month. "you can connect the computer card to your TV set to continue working if your monitor fails" I've never had a monitor fail on me, is this an actual problem? Aside from hobbyists, I'm not sure anyone actually wants this product. Open to some feedback here!

TaylorAlexander 10y ago
I'm constantly frustrated when people make claims like that about 3D printers. You can absolutely make durable parts on a home 3D printer. I designed a whole remote control car to prove that [1], and even the gears are 3D printed. Despite the car having 1/4 horsepower and being able to flip itself backwards with all that torque, the gears never wear out. There is no such thing as "3D printers are for prototyping". They're a machine. They're for whatever you want them for. If you consider the parts okay for your non prototype use, then that's fine. Also, this absolutely is for hobbyists. I'm not sure how that detracts from anything. Maybe the marketing is too suggestive that general consumers will want to build their own laptop, but that's fine. That's marketing. Personally I think the product is excellent as I've wanted an open laptop that runs all free software. I've also had a laptop monitor fail on me, and had to connect it to an external monitor to recover the files. [1] http://makezine.com/projects/3d-print-badass-rc-race-car/ http://makezine.com/projects/3d-print-badass-rc-race-car/
- lkcl 10y ago
  totally cool, alexander. btw look up "Flex3Drive" esp. my reports on it - best of both the direct and bowden worlds and more. the guy behind it is a quiet genius who worked in the automotive industry. regarding the laptop monitor failure: were there instructions online on how to repair the screen? because what i'm doing is about empowering people with not only the concept "right to repair" but one that seems to be quite novel these days called "right to own" - anyone with an apple product knows exactly what i'm talking about - as well as "right to not be spied on" and "right to not be afraid of your computer any more". frickin love the RC car :)
Artlav 10y ago
> 3D printers have terrible quality. They are for prototyping. You'd be printing out replacement parts every month. You might be confusing appearance and durability. The appearance of 3D printed parts is usually far from designer's tastes, but they are really durable. I have 3D printed whole flying drones and structural robot parts many times, and they are sufficiently strong and durable for the task and last a while. My main 3D printer is mostly made of 3D printed parts that are load-bearing, and none broke over the last 5 years or so. Only problem i ever had was a reel of bad Chinese plastic that degraded quickly under sunlight. Easy to avoid by not buying on e-bay...
- zokier 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure that for the same amount of similar material injection molded parts are generally stronger than 3d-printed ones.
  - Artlav 10y ago
    Sure, and it's much faster too. But the former is a rigid industrial process needing complex machinery, while the latter is a fully configurable process with machinery you can make out of assorted scrap at home.
  - TaylorAlexander 10y ago
    True. Also, aluminum parts are stronger than plastics. And magnesium parts are stronger than aluminum. But we don't make everything out of magnesium. The question is not "could it be stronger?", to which the answer is always yes until you've hit the extreme end with some kind of inconel/titanium/carbon nanotube mix, but "is it strong enough?". Also cost to manufacture, including tooling costs, is an important factor in choosing the best manufacturing method for a given part.
cordite 10y ago
> "you can connect the computer card to your TV set to continue working if your monitor fails" > I've never had a monitor fail on me, is this an actual problem? In one monitor I've had a contact go loose that would black out the screen. Positioning it in a special way would reestablish it. As for laptops.. the only cases I have seen are user caused, like closing the screen on some earbuds in a rush.
- wolrah 10y ago
  I've had two laptops where the hinge started failing over time (I'll gladly admit I'm not the nicest to my hardware) but this resulted in the fragile little LVDS cable running through the hinge getting messed up. My TiBook (which is well known for cracking hinges) would only display blue unless I had the display propped just right.
  - lkcl 10y ago
    i'm taking that into consideration with this design - the hinge parts are separate (10mm high and about 25mm long) so that if those really do get broken you're not looking at a total replacement of all the casework parts. i'll most likely be 3D printing just these parts alone in Polycarbonate or Nylon just to make absolutely sure they don't break. the cable i've had to think about quite a lot, and there's now a spacer which keeps it away from sharp edges as the hinge rotates in its socket. last thing you want is a 90 degree turn and the socket to rub continuously against the cable, breaking it within a matter of weeks. but, man those LVDS cables are thin. a 3.5mm bundle (wrapped in special cloth tape) of 28 wires! just incredible. anyway, repair and maintenance will be fully documented so that people can sort their machines out. i really don't want these things ending up in landfill.
  - mwcampbell 10y ago
    Or consider the case of a child or teenager being careless with the hinge on a laptop (I regret that I was in 1995, when it was uncommon for a 14-year-old to have a laptop). Wouldn't it be nice if just the housing could be replaced or repaired?
khedoros 10y ago
> My phone's battery would last 2 seconds if it used the processor my laptop would use. And my laptop would be slow as shit if it used a processor compatible with a mobile phone. A powerful ARM CPU, down-clocked and/or in a big.little configuration would cover those cases, somewhat. Low clock during mobile operation, higher clock+power usage when docked in a non-battery situation. The concept seems to work fine with phones + ARM Chromebooks that are out there now. > Aside from hobbyists, I'm not sure anyone actually wants this product. Open to some feedback here! Still true. Most people probably don't want to upgrade that often, deal with their phone not working when the CPU is stuck into a dock, etc. I still like the idea of this kind of upgradeable hardware. Maybe it would make more sense to have different form factors for cards, with adapters to connect smaller cards into larger enclosures. It seems like that kind of schema would provide the greatest coverage of different use-cases (although, it'd require either standard buses/data connections through the entire line of hardware, or conversion hardware included in the card adapters).
- slowmirai 10y ago
  I'm having trouble finding actively cooled ARM boards that are clocked higher than 2Ghz. I don't even care about the fact that I might need to buy multiple boards and form a cluster but for a cluster of 8 rasperry pi 3 including sd cards, network equipment, etc is more expensive and still far slower than of some cheap AMD CPU like the fx8300 with 8GB RAM, a 320GB hdd, psu and case which can be had for less than $300.
  - aidenn0 10y ago
    There are some POWER boards that offer much better single-package performance vs. ARM, but they are also much more expensive than an x86. In the mid-to-high-end laptop/desktop business it's hard to beat the economies of scale that x86 has.
saynsedit 10y ago
Look at the new MacBook airs motherboard sometime
lkcl 10y ago
> My phone's battery would last 2 seconds if it used the > processor my laptop would use. lucky we ain't gonna be using processors that are in the laptops that you're currently buying, then, eh? :) > And my laptop would be slow as shit if it used a > processor compatible with a mobile phone. again, luckily, it's possible to upgrade this design (for a fraction of the cost) so that that's not such a problem, then, eh? :) if you look at the videos i made you'll find that the performance is "good enough", and if you truly consider it not to be "good enough" (for you) but you'd still like to back the project so we can get to the point where it's "good enough (for you)", you can always get the pass-through card. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/speedy-devuan https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/spe... https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/web-browser-performance https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/web... https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/cedrus https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/ced... https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/pass-through-card https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/pas... basically i've come up with a strategy where i can reach the goal that you're looking for.... in financially responsible steps that allow me to retain 100% control of the project. no VC funding. sponsorship only. that we've got this far, if i'm allowed to assess it impartially: that's pretty fg awesome all on its own. > 3D printers have terrible quality. china-produced 3D printers are even worse than terrible: they're illegal (copyright-violating) and* the only thing that's good about them is that you end up with a stack of parts that's cheap. people who've bought them instantly regret it. no, you have to be REALLY careful about where you get your 3D printer from. the one that DJDemon made - an all-aluminium design - is pretty damn good. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/printing-parts https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/pri... > You'd be printing out replacement parts every month. correct... if you pick the worst-quality PLA available on the market, today. if however you use high-quality PLA such as that from Faberdashery, or if you use Polycarbonate or Nylon.... no. also it's down to internal design: the base back part that i designed uses an internal structure similar to that used in Gothic Cathedrals. the result was a part so strong that on attempting to snap it with my hands i actually became concerned for my safety due to the amount of pressure i was applying to be able to bend it. > They are for prototyping. that's right. so what we will be doing when this gets to MOQ 2500 and above is: going to injection-molding... BUT - and this is really REALLY important - the parts will be EXACTLY THE SAME so that people can, on buying a mass-produced variant of this laptop housing, go down to a local library or go to UPS's web site and order a replacement. if they really want high quality they can go to shapeways and get it powder-printed. it'll cost them a fortune but they'll get a "decent-looking" replacement part. > I've never had a monitor fail on me, is this an > actual problem? this was a way to illustrate flexibility. lots of people were saying "what happens if the LCD on the laptop breaks and i can't replace it" etc. etc. and yes i have actually managed to break monitors by running them at higher-than-rated refresh rates.... oops :) > Aside from hobbyists, I'm not sure anyone actually > wants this product. well, we're almost up to 1,000 backers so i must be doing _something_ right!

TaylorAlexander 10y ago

I'm constantly frustrated when people make claims like that about 3D printers. You can absolutely make durable parts on a home 3D printer. I designed a whole remote control car to prove that [1], and even the gears are 3D printed. Despite the car having 1/4 horsepower and being able to flip itself backwards with all that torque, the gears never wear out. There is no such thing as "3D printers are for prototyping". They're a machine. They're for whatever you want them for. If you consider the parts okay for your non prototype use, then that's fine. Also, this absolutely is for hobbyists. I'm not sure how that detracts from anything. Maybe the marketing is too suggestive that general consumers will want to build their own laptop, but that's fine. That's marketing. Personally I think the product is excellent as I've wanted an open laptop that runs all free software. I've also had a laptop monitor fail on me, and had to connect it to an external monitor to recover the files. [1] http://makezine.com/projects/3d-print-badass-rc-race-car/ http://makezine.com/projects/3d-print-badass-rc-race-car/

lkcl 10y ago
totally cool, alexander. btw look up "Flex3Drive" esp. my reports on it - best of both the direct and bowden worlds and more. the guy behind it is a quiet genius who worked in the automotive industry. regarding the laptop monitor failure: were there instructions online on how to repair the screen? because what i'm doing is about empowering people with not only the concept "right to repair" but one that seems to be quite novel these days called "right to own" - anyone with an apple product knows exactly what i'm talking about - as well as "right to not be spied on" and "right to not be afraid of your computer any more". frickin love the RC car :)

Artlav 10y ago

> 3D printers have terrible quality. They are for prototyping. You'd be printing out replacement parts every month. You might be confusing appearance and durability. The appearance of 3D printed parts is usually far from designer's tastes, but they are really durable. I have 3D printed whole flying drones and structural robot parts many times, and they are sufficiently strong and durable for the task and last a while. My main 3D printer is mostly made of 3D printed parts that are load-bearing, and none broke over the last 5 years or so. Only problem i ever had was a reel of bad Chinese plastic that degraded quickly under sunlight. Easy to avoid by not buying on e-bay...

zokier 10y ago
I'm pretty sure that for the same amount of similar material injection molded parts are generally stronger than 3d-printed ones.
- Artlav 10y ago
  Sure, and it's much faster too. But the former is a rigid industrial process needing complex machinery, while the latter is a fully configurable process with machinery you can make out of assorted scrap at home.
- TaylorAlexander 10y ago
  True. Also, aluminum parts are stronger than plastics. And magnesium parts are stronger than aluminum. But we don't make everything out of magnesium. The question is not "could it be stronger?", to which the answer is always yes until you've hit the extreme end with some kind of inconel/titanium/carbon nanotube mix, but "is it strong enough?". Also cost to manufacture, including tooling costs, is an important factor in choosing the best manufacturing method for a given part.

cordite 10y ago

> "you can connect the computer card to your TV set to continue working if your monitor fails" > I've never had a monitor fail on me, is this an actual problem? In one monitor I've had a contact go loose that would black out the screen. Positioning it in a special way would reestablish it. As for laptops.. the only cases I have seen are user caused, like closing the screen on some earbuds in a rush.

wolrah 10y ago
I've had two laptops where the hinge started failing over time (I'll gladly admit I'm not the nicest to my hardware) but this resulted in the fragile little LVDS cable running through the hinge getting messed up. My TiBook (which is well known for cracking hinges) would only display blue unless I had the display propped just right.
- lkcl 10y ago
  i'm taking that into consideration with this design - the hinge parts are separate (10mm high and about 25mm long) so that if those really do get broken you're not looking at a total replacement of all the casework parts. i'll most likely be 3D printing just these parts alone in Polycarbonate or Nylon just to make absolutely sure they don't break. the cable i've had to think about quite a lot, and there's now a spacer which keeps it away from sharp edges as the hinge rotates in its socket. last thing you want is a 90 degree turn and the socket to rub continuously against the cable, breaking it within a matter of weeks. but, man those LVDS cables are thin. a 3.5mm bundle (wrapped in special cloth tape) of 28 wires! just incredible. anyway, repair and maintenance will be fully documented so that people can sort their machines out. i really don't want these things ending up in landfill.
- mwcampbell 10y ago
  Or consider the case of a child or teenager being careless with the hinge on a laptop (I regret that I was in 1995, when it was uncommon for a 14-year-old to have a laptop). Wouldn't it be nice if just the housing could be replaced or repaired?

khedoros 10y ago

> My phone's battery would last 2 seconds if it used the processor my laptop would use. And my laptop would be slow as shit if it used a processor compatible with a mobile phone. A powerful ARM CPU, down-clocked and/or in a big.little configuration would cover those cases, somewhat. Low clock during mobile operation, higher clock+power usage when docked in a non-battery situation. The concept seems to work fine with phones + ARM Chromebooks that are out there now. > Aside from hobbyists, I'm not sure anyone actually wants this product. Open to some feedback here! Still true. Most people probably don't want to upgrade that often, deal with their phone not working when the CPU is stuck into a dock, etc. I still like the idea of this kind of upgradeable hardware. Maybe it would make more sense to have different form factors for cards, with adapters to connect smaller cards into larger enclosures. It seems like that kind of schema would provide the greatest coverage of different use-cases (although, it'd require either standard buses/data connections through the entire line of hardware, or conversion hardware included in the card adapters).

slowmirai 10y ago
I'm having trouble finding actively cooled ARM boards that are clocked higher than 2Ghz. I don't even care about the fact that I might need to buy multiple boards and form a cluster but for a cluster of 8 rasperry pi 3 including sd cards, network equipment, etc is more expensive and still far slower than of some cheap AMD CPU like the fx8300 with 8GB RAM, a 320GB hdd, psu and case which can be had for less than $300.
- aidenn0 10y ago
  There are some POWER boards that offer much better single-package performance vs. ARM, but they are also much more expensive than an x86. In the mid-to-high-end laptop/desktop business it's hard to beat the economies of scale that x86 has.

saynsedit 10y ago

Look at the new MacBook airs motherboard sometime

lkcl 10y ago

> My phone's battery would last 2 seconds if it used the > processor my laptop would use. lucky we ain't gonna be using processors that are in the laptops that you're currently buying, then, eh? :) > And my laptop would be slow as shit if it used a > processor compatible with a mobile phone. again, luckily, it's possible to upgrade this design (for a fraction of the cost) so that that's not such a problem, then, eh? :) if you look at the videos i made you'll find that the performance is "good enough", and if you truly consider it not to be "good enough" (for you) but you'd still like to back the project so we can get to the point where it's "good enough (for you)", you can always get the pass-through card. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/speedy-devuan https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/spe... https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/web-browser-performance https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/web... https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/cedrus https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/ced... https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/pass-through-card https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/pas... basically i've come up with a strategy where i can reach the goal that you're looking for.... in financially responsible steps that allow me to retain 100% control of the project. no VC funding. sponsorship only. that we've got this far, if i'm allowed to assess it impartially: that's pretty fg awesome all on its own. > 3D printers have terrible quality. china-produced 3D printers are even worse than terrible: they're illegal (copyright-violating) and* the only thing that's good about them is that you end up with a stack of parts that's cheap. people who've bought them instantly regret it. no, you have to be REALLY careful about where you get your 3D printer from. the one that DJDemon made - an all-aluminium design - is pretty damn good. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/printing-parts https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/pri... > You'd be printing out replacement parts every month. correct... if you pick the worst-quality PLA available on the market, today. if however you use high-quality PLA such as that from Faberdashery, or if you use Polycarbonate or Nylon.... no. also it's down to internal design: the base back part that i designed uses an internal structure similar to that used in Gothic Cathedrals. the result was a part so strong that on attempting to snap it with my hands i actually became concerned for my safety due to the amount of pressure i was applying to be able to bend it. > They are for prototyping. that's right. so what we will be doing when this gets to MOQ 2500 and above is: going to injection-molding... BUT - and this is really REALLY important - the parts will be EXACTLY THE SAME so that people can, on buying a mass-produced variant of this laptop housing, go down to a local library or go to UPS's web site and order a replacement. if they really want high quality they can go to shapeways and get it powder-printed. it'll cost them a fortune but they'll get a "decent-looking" replacement part. > I've never had a monitor fail on me, is this an > actual problem? this was a way to illustrate flexibility. lots of people were saying "what happens if the LCD on the laptop breaks and i can't replace it" etc. etc. and yes i have actually managed to break monitors by running them at higher-than-rated refresh rates.... oops :) > Aside from hobbyists, I'm not sure anyone actually > wants this product. well, we're almost up to 1,000 backers so i must be doing _something_ right!