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>There is more and more agreement that obesity, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease and dementia are all in the end manifestations of various forms of metabol

by s_q_b 10y ago

>There is more and more agreement that obesity, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease and dementia are all in the end manifestations of various forms of metabolic issues, most prevalent of which is (frequently undiagnosed) insulin resistance Citation needed.

gtrubetskoy 10y ago
> Citation needed. You are confusing HN with wikipedia. ;) On a serious note - I purposely avoided including links because this is such a big subject (and neglected to mention that in my post). Just google for it, draw your own conclusions.
- Pfhreak 10y ago
  Citations are still common in HN. You see them in bracketed form [1], [2], [3], etc. all the time. If you can't be bothered to provide even a couple of sources, I wouldn't expect people to invest any time into "Just googling it" (which sounds a bit condescending).
- s_q_b 10y ago
  I have. My conclusion is that your assertion is incorrect. That is why I asked for a citation. Edit in Reply: I would like you to cite gold-standard scientifically verified evidence, not "common knowledge." As far as I know, insulin resistance is not known to cause the myriad of diseases you mention. It is merely an early warning sign of diabetes. If you wish to challenge the text books, you better come with peer-reviewed and independently verified studies. Also, you're getting the scientific method backwards. If you assert a fact, you're the one who has to prove it. The burden of proof lies on you to demonstrate that the current medical evidence is wrong. As said two thousand years ago, "The proof lies upon him who affirms, not upon him who denies; since, by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof." [0] [0] Just in Case - http://www.revistaamicac.com/Insulin%20Resistance%20-%20What%20is%20Myth%20and%20What%20is%20Reality.pdf http://www.revistaamicac.com/Insulin%20Resistance%20-%20What... ----------- Huh. You're right. Thanks for the sources. It's not definitive research, but it's certainly very convincing. Doctors often act on less, including single patient case studies.
  - gtrubetskoy 10y ago
    > My conclusion is that your assertion is incorrect. Citation needed. ;) But seriously - what would you like me to cite? That we are consuming incredible amounts of sugar or food coloring? Or that high sugar consumption leads to type 2 diabetes, which usually starts with un-daignosed insulin resistance? Or that the world population is consuming more sugar in the last two centuries? Or that there is a link between metabolism and obesity, or between obesity and all aforementioned symptoms and diseases? It's all mostly common knowledge really... Sugar consumption is probably not all that different from tobacco smoking - I wouldn't be surprised if some 10 years from now we will see lawsuits against sugared drink vendors claiming that they didn't adequately warn their consumers of the dangers of sugar consumption.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    That quote is regard to where burden of proof lies, not whether there is any burden.
  - gtrubetskoy 10y ago
    > As far as I know, insulin resistance is not known to cause the myriad of diseases you mention. IR and cardiovascular: https://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 https://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 IR and dementia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12467491 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12467491 IR and obesity: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038351/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038351/ IR and hypertension: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7512468 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7512468

by s_q_b 10y ago

gtrubetskoy 10y ago

> Citation needed. You are confusing HN with wikipedia. ;) On a serious note - I purposely avoided including links because this is such a big subject (and neglected to mention that in my post). Just google for it, draw your own conclusions.

Pfhreak 10y ago
Citations are still common in HN. You see them in bracketed form [1], [2], [3], etc. all the time. If you can't be bothered to provide even a couple of sources, I wouldn't expect people to invest any time into "Just googling it" (which sounds a bit condescending).
s_q_b 10y ago
I have. My conclusion is that your assertion is incorrect. That is why I asked for a citation. Edit in Reply: I would like you to cite gold-standard scientifically verified evidence, not "common knowledge." As far as I know, insulin resistance is not known to cause the myriad of diseases you mention. It is merely an early warning sign of diabetes. If you wish to challenge the text books, you better come with peer-reviewed and independently verified studies. Also, you're getting the scientific method backwards. If you assert a fact, you're the one who has to prove it. The burden of proof lies on you to demonstrate that the current medical evidence is wrong. As said two thousand years ago, "The proof lies upon him who affirms, not upon him who denies; since, by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof." [0] [0] Just in Case - http://www.revistaamicac.com/Insulin%20Resistance%20-%20What%20is%20Myth%20and%20What%20is%20Reality.pdf http://www.revistaamicac.com/Insulin%20Resistance%20-%20What... ----------- Huh. You're right. Thanks for the sources. It's not definitive research, but it's certainly very convincing. Doctors often act on less, including single patient case studies.
- gtrubetskoy 10y ago
  > My conclusion is that your assertion is incorrect. Citation needed. ;) But seriously - what would you like me to cite? That we are consuming incredible amounts of sugar or food coloring? Or that high sugar consumption leads to type 2 diabetes, which usually starts with un-daignosed insulin resistance? Or that the world population is consuming more sugar in the last two centuries? Or that there is a link between metabolism and obesity, or between obesity and all aforementioned symptoms and diseases? It's all mostly common knowledge really... Sugar consumption is probably not all that different from tobacco smoking - I wouldn't be surprised if some 10 years from now we will see lawsuits against sugared drink vendors claiming that they didn't adequately warn their consumers of the dangers of sugar consumption.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  That quote is regard to where burden of proof lies, not whether there is any burden.
- gtrubetskoy 10y ago
  > As far as I know, insulin resistance is not known to cause the myriad of diseases you mention. IR and cardiovascular: https://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 https://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 IR and dementia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12467491 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12467491 IR and obesity: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038351/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038351/ IR and hypertension: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7512468 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7512468