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> It implies that all women terribly oppressed, while all men had lives of unrelenting leisure. No, it doesn't. It says nothing about "all men" other than the

> It implies that all women terribly oppressed, while all men had lives of unrelenting leisure. No, it doesn't. It says nothing about "all men" other than their status relative to women. If I said "Alabama society in the 1950s was blatantly racist," why would you conclude that every white person in Alabama lived like a king?

adekok 10y ago
True. However, as shown in another comment, the typical "everything is misogynistic" comment is due to intersectional feminism. Which in my experience, largely does claim that men have it very good just for being men, and women have it very bad, just for being women. A blatant statement of "the culture was misogynistic" is an overly simple classification. The culture was oppressive towards damned near everyone who wasn't of the highest class. I just don't believe that a rich woman like the Biblical Esther had it worse than a poor free man living in the city at the same time. So her experience with misogyny gave her a better life than 99% of the rest of the population.
- mjmsmith 10y ago
  > The culture was oppressive towards damned near everyone who wasn't of the highest class. Yes, yes, "all lives matter". It doesn't change the fact that given a man and woman of the same class, it was generally more oppressive to the woman, Biblical queen exemptions notwithstanding.
  - adekok 10y ago
    > It doesn't change the fact that given a man and woman of the same class, it was generally more oppressive to the woman, Please define "oppressive"... using either gender neutral measurements, or measurements which balance comparisons against both genders. As a case in point, I can cherry-pick the following facts, which are all true: * women live longer than men * more money is spent on womens health care than mens health care * more men die in violence and wars than women * about 80% of homeless are men * more men are mentally ill than women etc. Does that mean that men are "oppressed"? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm poking this subject with a sharp stick in order to question our assumptions. Someone says "women are oppressed", and everyone nods in agreement. OK... what does that mean? Are the stats cherry-picked like I did above? Maybe sometimes women have it better than men, and sometimes they have it worse?
    - mjmsmith 10y ago
      For the majority of women in most of history, oppressed means that your life is just as difficult as a random man of the same class, plus he might rape you. I'm done here.
      - adekok 10y ago
        I'm looking for quantitative measurements of "difficulty". You've admitted you don't have them, and are unwilling to look for them.

adekok 10y ago

True. However, as shown in another comment, the typical "everything is misogynistic" comment is due to intersectional feminism. Which in my experience, largely does claim that men have it very good just for being men, and women have it very bad, just for being women. A blatant statement of "the culture was misogynistic" is an overly simple classification. The culture was oppressive towards damned near everyone who wasn't of the highest class. I just don't believe that a rich woman like the Biblical Esther had it worse than a poor free man living in the city at the same time. So her experience with misogyny gave her a better life than 99% of the rest of the population.

mjmsmith 10y ago
> The culture was oppressive towards damned near everyone who wasn't of the highest class. Yes, yes, "all lives matter". It doesn't change the fact that given a man and woman of the same class, it was generally more oppressive to the woman, Biblical queen exemptions notwithstanding.
- adekok 10y ago
  > It doesn't change the fact that given a man and woman of the same class, it was generally more oppressive to the woman, Please define "oppressive"... using either gender neutral measurements, or measurements which balance comparisons against both genders. As a case in point, I can cherry-pick the following facts, which are all true: * women live longer than men * more money is spent on womens health care than mens health care * more men die in violence and wars than women * about 80% of homeless are men * more men are mentally ill than women etc. Does that mean that men are "oppressed"? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm poking this subject with a sharp stick in order to question our assumptions. Someone says "women are oppressed", and everyone nods in agreement. OK... what does that mean? Are the stats cherry-picked like I did above? Maybe sometimes women have it better than men, and sometimes they have it worse?
  - mjmsmith 10y ago
    For the majority of women in most of history, oppressed means that your life is just as difficult as a random man of the same class, plus he might rape you. I'm done here.
    - adekok 10y ago
      I'm looking for quantitative measurements of "difficulty". You've admitted you don't have them, and are unwilling to look for them.