6 ms·

Perfect reading and reproduction of the market-fundamentalist-pamphlet! Who are you to call anyone brainwashed? Talking in truisms, uncharitable to any disagree

Perfect reading and reproduction of the market-fundamentalist-pamphlet! Who are you to call anyone brainwashed? Talking in truisms, uncharitable to any disagreeing point of view, turning anyone who opposes your points of view into caricatures. Give me a break.

meira 10y ago
It's funny how idiots here in Brazil thinks that the neoliberalism BS is a serious econômica thesis. Parent post probably studied in a federal university, but hates "big bad state".
- brbrodude 10y ago
  Well I think the biggest problem is that we're not really used to reading and trying to understand stuff more deeply, and debating etc so we need simple truths to cling to and for quite a long time there was something homogeneous here, everybody had the same information, everybody watched Jornal Nacional and Novelas, etc. But when you start to read and honestly try to develop understanding of stuff you need to deal with conflicting ideas without cracking lol, and you start to see it's a lot of work and it takes time... But this shouldn't be something for "college people" only, it should be for everyone(and I'm not one of the humanities or who is from the universities). But now we're getting anti-intellectual like the US...
  - brguy 10y ago
    I'm sorry, but I can't see how being pro free markets is being anti intellectual. Using myself as an example, I used to believe government intervention was usually a good thing if done right. But then this whole mess happened in Brazil and I started to actually study economics to understand what was going on, and that changed my view completely.
    - brbrodude 10y ago
      Economics is not the only issue at play in this whole thing, there's a lot more. This talk of "state worship", "school indoctrination", plus the all sorts of mcarthism, left-dehumanizing(also important to note: center-left) and etc is 100% pure authoritharianism. If you're capable of being charitable to different arguments, seeing the nuances, recognizing the valid points someone from another point-of-view can provide and etc it's one thing but there's a lot of people that are way over the edge.
      - andrenth 10y ago
        State worshipping and school/university indoctrination are very real things in Brazil, though. The center-left that you mention is demonized as "neoliberals" by the extreme left here, so I'm not really sure what your point is about that.
        brbrodude 10y ago
        I'm not convinced and it was not my experience. Plus it doesn't make any sense, nobody actually worships the state so this is already politically charged wording with little substance and it's what is used to bash people with, not for sincere discussion. If people want to be taken seriously they should use precise and neutral language as much as possible.
        andrenth 10y ago
        You know what is meant when we say "worship the state". You can't be naive to the point of thinking we mean people kneeling in the altar of the state. But there is an undeniable anti-market anti-individual freedom anti-conservatism bias in Brazilian schools. Examples of that are readily available if you google for it.
      - brguy 10y ago
        Well, I do think Brazil has a serious problem with state worship and school indoctrination. I can't remember being exposed to any sort of liberal economics thinking when I was at school or in college. Many of my colleagues never really questioned the ideas they learned, and some of them deepened them during their college years. I don't think that pointing this out as a problem is dehumanizing nor authoritarian. For one, I'm completely against the "Escola sem Partido" project, because it is actually authoritarian and limits freedom of speech. I do agree, though, that many people with right wing ideals dehumanize progressives, but those are more linked with the conservative and religious right than with libertarian or classical liberal ideals. I consider myself a classical liberal and when exposing my views to left wing people have been called a fascist and many other adjectives that actually are dehumanizing and are the extreme opposite of what I believe in. I just don't care when people say that, because it just shows they don't have a clue of what my ideals are about and don't even care to listen.
- andrenth 10y ago
  The fact that you use the "neoliberal" card on disagreeing opinions and resort to ad hominem attacks shows how deep you understanding of economics is.
andrenth 10y ago
Your reply is a good fit for that caricature though. No substance, not a single argument to oppose his points. Is anything said by the parent false? All you did was giving an angry retort.

meira 10y ago

It's funny how idiots here in Brazil thinks that the neoliberalism BS is a serious econômica thesis. Parent post probably studied in a federal university, but hates "big bad state".

brbrodude 10y ago
Well I think the biggest problem is that we're not really used to reading and trying to understand stuff more deeply, and debating etc so we need simple truths to cling to and for quite a long time there was something homogeneous here, everybody had the same information, everybody watched Jornal Nacional and Novelas, etc. But when you start to read and honestly try to develop understanding of stuff you need to deal with conflicting ideas without cracking lol, and you start to see it's a lot of work and it takes time... But this shouldn't be something for "college people" only, it should be for everyone(and I'm not one of the humanities or who is from the universities). But now we're getting anti-intellectual like the US...
- brguy 10y ago
  I'm sorry, but I can't see how being pro free markets is being anti intellectual. Using myself as an example, I used to believe government intervention was usually a good thing if done right. But then this whole mess happened in Brazil and I started to actually study economics to understand what was going on, and that changed my view completely.
  - brbrodude 10y ago
    Economics is not the only issue at play in this whole thing, there's a lot more. This talk of "state worship", "school indoctrination", plus the all sorts of mcarthism, left-dehumanizing(also important to note: center-left) and etc is 100% pure authoritharianism. If you're capable of being charitable to different arguments, seeing the nuances, recognizing the valid points someone from another point-of-view can provide and etc it's one thing but there's a lot of people that are way over the edge.
    - andrenth 10y ago
      State worshipping and school/university indoctrination are very real things in Brazil, though. The center-left that you mention is demonized as "neoliberals" by the extreme left here, so I'm not really sure what your point is about that.
      - brbrodude 10y ago
        I'm not convinced and it was not my experience. Plus it doesn't make any sense, nobody actually worships the state so this is already politically charged wording with little substance and it's what is used to bash people with, not for sincere discussion. If people want to be taken seriously they should use precise and neutral language as much as possible.
        andrenth 10y ago
        You know what is meant when we say "worship the state". You can't be naive to the point of thinking we mean people kneeling in the altar of the state. But there is an undeniable anti-market anti-individual freedom anti-conservatism bias in Brazilian schools. Examples of that are readily available if you google for it.
    - brguy 10y ago
      Well, I do think Brazil has a serious problem with state worship and school indoctrination. I can't remember being exposed to any sort of liberal economics thinking when I was at school or in college. Many of my colleagues never really questioned the ideas they learned, and some of them deepened them during their college years. I don't think that pointing this out as a problem is dehumanizing nor authoritarian. For one, I'm completely against the "Escola sem Partido" project, because it is actually authoritarian and limits freedom of speech. I do agree, though, that many people with right wing ideals dehumanize progressives, but those are more linked with the conservative and religious right than with libertarian or classical liberal ideals. I consider myself a classical liberal and when exposing my views to left wing people have been called a fascist and many other adjectives that actually are dehumanizing and are the extreme opposite of what I believe in. I just don't care when people say that, because it just shows they don't have a clue of what my ideals are about and don't even care to listen.
andrenth 10y ago
The fact that you use the "neoliberal" card on disagreeing opinions and resort to ad hominem attacks shows how deep you understanding of economics is.

andrenth 10y ago

Your reply is a good fit for that caricature though. No substance, not a single argument to oppose his points. Is anything said by the parent false? All you did was giving an angry retort.