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I can't speak to the puritanical, since I am an atheist and don't believe in paradise anyway ;) I had to overcome a lot to get where I am as posted at the top

by eggy 10y ago

I can't speak to the puritanical, since I am an atheist and don't believe in paradise anyway ;) I had to overcome a lot to get where I am as posted at the top of the thread, and I don't believe people are just lazy or wasteful (had to look up profligate - thanks!). I'm curious to see examples of 'structural societal reasons' you write about for discussion, since I can only guess, and I don't want to assume. I do, however, think there are truly lazy and wasteful people; I have known quite a few in my decades and travels. I also think they can change. The world is a better place though in terms of worldwide people lifted out of poverty, and other indicators. "The U.S. ranks 6th worldwide in wages, but 25th in wealth..." quoting myself from another reply above. It is because we are a debt-based society. I saw this in my old impoverished neighborhood in Brooklyn in the 60s through the 80s, and I see it starkly in contrast here in East Java. People re-purpose stuff more readily here like my mom and dad did back home.

blowski 10y ago
Well done to you for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, and doing well in life. The stereotypical example of what I'm talking about is the child who grows up in a poor area with terrible parents, terrible schooling and little in the way of a good example to follow. So who's teaching the kids 'financial responsibility' and the 'virtues of hard work'? And when they grow up without those values, who's to blame? When they have kids of their own, and the cycle continues, who's to blame then? You're lucky that you had good parents, as are your own children by the sounds of it. But not everyone is as lucky as that, and simply lecturing and blaming those who grow up without that kind of luck doesn't solve anything.
- eggy 10y ago
  Still not buying it. I love my parents. My mom has passed, but my dad is still living. They didn't teach me financial literacy, however, I did learn about placing bets on horses at a young age ;) My father and mother both never completed high school. Dad was an ex-merchant marine, Golden Gloves boxer (runner up champ in NYC in the 50s). My Dad and I have a good understanding now, but there were some really bad physical times in the household, let's leave it at that without making this an Oprah show candidate. I would say that movies and books some consider trite, contrived, romantic, boring, unrealistic, nowadays, helped give me an ideal to live towards, or heroes if you will. I think there aren't as many, but they are shunned or looked down on in current times by intellectual elites to the detriment of the good they do. I grew up without TV, and a phone for most of my childhood. It wasn't until I was eleven that me and my friends rode the subway from Brooklyn to Manhattan without adult supervision. Even some of the poorest in the US have internet and a semi-smartphone for immediate at-your-fingertips information. I would say they have a leg up on some of my peers there. So, aside from the tails where there are extreme cases, I am an optimist, and think it is easier to escape your roots so to speak. [Edit] I realized after reading my response that I still carry a chip on my shoulder, but in the interests of transparency, and a lesson in humulity, I'll let the post stand as is. My apologies if any offense is given above.

by eggy 10y ago

blowski 10y ago

Well done to you for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, and doing well in life. The stereotypical example of what I'm talking about is the child who grows up in a poor area with terrible parents, terrible schooling and little in the way of a good example to follow. So who's teaching the kids 'financial responsibility' and the 'virtues of hard work'? And when they grow up without those values, who's to blame? When they have kids of their own, and the cycle continues, who's to blame then? You're lucky that you had good parents, as are your own children by the sounds of it. But not everyone is as lucky as that, and simply lecturing and blaming those who grow up without that kind of luck doesn't solve anything.

eggy 10y ago
Still not buying it. I love my parents. My mom has passed, but my dad is still living. They didn't teach me financial literacy, however, I did learn about placing bets on horses at a young age ;) My father and mother both never completed high school. Dad was an ex-merchant marine, Golden Gloves boxer (runner up champ in NYC in the 50s). My Dad and I have a good understanding now, but there were some really bad physical times in the household, let's leave it at that without making this an Oprah show candidate. I would say that movies and books some consider trite, contrived, romantic, boring, unrealistic, nowadays, helped give me an ideal to live towards, or heroes if you will. I think there aren't as many, but they are shunned or looked down on in current times by intellectual elites to the detriment of the good they do. I grew up without TV, and a phone for most of my childhood. It wasn't until I was eleven that me and my friends rode the subway from Brooklyn to Manhattan without adult supervision. Even some of the poorest in the US have internet and a semi-smartphone for immediate at-your-fingertips information. I would say they have a leg up on some of my peers there. So, aside from the tails where there are extreme cases, I am an optimist, and think it is easier to escape your roots so to speak. [Edit] I realized after reading my response that I still carry a chip on my shoulder, but in the interests of transparency, and a lesson in humulity, I'll let the post stand as is. My apologies if any offense is given above.