4 ms·

The reason piracy is so popular is because it is free and because it's incredibly convenient, in that order. The convenience factor is basically, if you want s

The reason piracy is so popular is because it is free and because it's incredibly convenient, in that order. The convenience factor is basically, if you want some content (movie, game) it's a simple search and download away (streaming torrents seem to be gaining traction). No legal alternative offers this level of convenience. I suspect piracy will become harder for the average user due to three letter agencies making life harder for pirates, but it won't stop the determined ones. Speaking of determined torrenters, Peter Sunde, the founder of TPB had something interesting to say about torrent aggregators being shut down [1]. The idea is that even though downloading torrents itself is p2p, finding the magnet links is still centralized and that is an area that needs to be decentralized. [1] https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-piracy-scene-needs-innovation-160726/ https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-piracy-scene-nee...

anexprogrammer 10y ago
It's much, much more than that. It's the only way to get an acceptable product. I have ALSO pirated everything I ever bought until very recently. DVDs included region forcing, and forced, unskippable adverts and copyright notices. Netflix, .mkvs and .mp4s just have the programme and titles. Usually someone, somewhere, has put effort into making a good quality rip saving me the time doing so, along with synchronised and corrected subtitles. For games, the major studios still feel annoying and restrictive copy protection is the way to go. I don't want a £30 game that requires me juggling collections of plastic disks, or an always on net connection to a licensing server they may turn off in a year or two anyway. So the noCD, no licensing server release is a necessary download for me. I tend to mostly buy GOG and independent studios putting out DRM free things these days. EU IV being about the only exception I can think of in the last 2 years. I'm not a fan of being data mined on how often and how far I read ebooks, listen to audiobooks. So first thing on buying a new ebook from Amazon is rip the protection to read it on my non-amazon reader. First thing to do with an audible book is convert to mp3. If either of those became unfeasible or impossible I would stop buying. Finally for music, we've had attempts with copy protections and Sony rootkits, but mostly my music collection is complete and they gave up on silly DRM attempts. I only need to rip new stuff that's not available in FLAC.
- type0 10y ago
  > I have ALSO pirated everything I ever bought until very recently. Pirating helps to sell their products, think of it as free advertisement, this is the thing movie studios, music producers and book publishers don't understand. I know folks that for each pirated book they keep buy a physical one, also friends that pirated some movie and by a word of mouth advertise to go and see it in the cinemas, music to buy and go to the concerts etc. If you can't see the product how would you know if it's worth buying? Therefore someone who pirates would never pay anyway and chasing them would make you less money not more!
- userbinator 10y ago
  DVDs included region forcing, and forced, unskippable adverts and copyright notices. Netflix, .mkvs and .mp4s just have the programme and titles. Succinctly summed up by this rather old image: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4369403959_fe90464b27_o.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4369403959_fe90464b27_o....
djhworld 10y ago
I'd say the opposite with regards to convenience, but maybe I've been away from the scene for a few years now Nowadays it seems more of a hassle to pirate content, especially here in the UK with torrent sites getting blocked by ISPs (necessitating a need for VPNs or proxy services) along with having to constantly find new sources for torrents as authorities crack down on sites like KickAssTorrents. I find it easier to just subscribe to Netflix and Spotify, but maybe I have more disposable income now that it doesn't bother me.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  I used to have a Spotify subscription. Then I moved out of Sweden and lost half my playlists. Never subscribed again. I never had a Netflix subscription because I don't have a good enough connection to stream high quality videos - Additionally, I rewatch some series a lot. It's simply more convenient to have them on my hard drive. The US gov is running around the internet policing copyright for very specific companies, acting like they're doing the world a favour. Calling everybody thieves. Threatening people with fines and prison. "You can just pay for a Netflix/Spotify subscription"... well, no, not everywhere and it's certainly not as convenient for everyone. Sidenote: Spotify's content bootstrapping was a dump of music from TPB. If it weren't for piracy, we wouldn't have spotify. The system is broken.
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    Sidenote2: Hollywood got started because of a move from NYC to get around having to pay licenses to Edison. Hollywood exists because they wanted to infringe the protections without paying. MPAA would prefer we didn't remember that.
    - mountaineer22 10y ago
      Do you think Edison was not a rent-seeker?
    - mind_heist 10y ago
      Hmm ...this is really interesting, I didn't know about 'Hollywood built on piracy' story at all. I did some research and found this interesting comment in one of the articles, which does seem to make sense. "The proponents of this myth seem to want to suggest an analogy: Hollywood was built by “outlaws”; now Hollywood has become the incumbent, seeking to stop the next generation of “outlaws”. But this is a false equivalence. The Pirate Bay (or Megaupload, etc.) isn’t producing its own movies. Recognizing exclusive rights to a creative work doesn’t prohibit anyone from creating their own works. Stopping someone from offering copies, especially complete, verbatim copies, of a work is not anti-competitive." from : http://www.copyhype.com/2012/05/was-hollywood-built-on-piracy/ http://www.copyhype.com/2012/05/was-hollywood-built-on-pirac...
naviehuynh 10y ago
It can be free but not that convenient. Pirated content needs to be checked to make sure it's not fake nor malicious, not to mention the technical downsides of the torrent protocol (large bandwidth consumption, insecure, easy to block, slow speed on non port-forwarding routers etc) It's much easier to buy and download games on Steam or watch movies on Netflix nowadays.
- L-four 10y ago
  In many places this is still not the case.
- themihai 10y ago
  The titles available on Netflix(at least in the EU/UK) are laughable. I have both Netflix and Amazon prime(which has pretty much the same content).
- tempestn 10y ago
  For movies you can find on Netflix that's absolutely true. The difference is that effectively anything can be found via torrent or nzb, while the catalog of any single paid provider, even netflix, is relatively limited. You might get reasonable coverage (although still not as complete) by combining a number of subscription services, but the 'ease' advantage quickly disappears. I would happily pay a significant multiplier on what I pay for Netflix in order to legally stream any reasonably popular movie released within the past few years, plus a decent selection of older ones. IE, roughly what you would find at your average Blockbuster 10 years ago. (A similar selection of TV shows would be nice too.) Things may be improving, but they're definitely not there yet.
  - josho 10y ago
    In this thread why are the rental options like iTunes not being discussed? Those distribution channels have the convenience of streaming, and a deep catalog. Is it because everyone wants all the movies for $10/mth or less rather than $5 a show?
    - 10y ago
adrianN 10y ago
The legal alternatives just don't have the content I'd like to see. The Netflix catalog for example contains maybe one out of ten movies I'm looking for, whereas it is easy to find even obscure movies using torrents. If you like older or less popular movies you're generally out of luck. At best you can find a DVD, but that won't work for movies that weren't even released in your region. I don't understand why it is so hard for the studios to offer their whole catalog online and let me download a movie for a buck or two. Add the possibility for user-submitted subtitles and you have an excellent competitor to piracy.
_jomo 10y ago
I would actually be willing to pay the Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Spotify price if torrenting became legal. For me, convenience + technical and quality advantages are a major factor. Much more than having it for free.
nabla9 10y ago
Torrent sites have huge advantage over streaming services is that they can distribute all content. If streaming services had everything, people would pick one based on price and quality of the actual streaming gladly pay more than current prices are. There is no change in hell that customers pay for Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Amazon at the same time. There is obvious business solution for this. Content producers should provide their shows and movies for all streaming services for same price. Streaming services would just exist to stream data and distribute payments from customers. Current business model of streaming is working against "the internet" and torrents are way to get around it.
- jpalomaki 10y ago
  My understanding is that in US many people are paying quite much for cable. One article says the average monthly bill is $100. http://bgr.com/2015/09/09/cable-tv-bill-price-100/ http://bgr.com/2015/09/09/cable-tv-bill-price-100/ No idea if that is true or how many people are putting that much money for contents on monthly basis. Compared to the streaming services this is quite much and with that money you could get a monthly subscription to several services.
soylentcola 10y ago
Convenience is definitely a factor. We pay for cable TV, Netflix, HBO, and Amazon Prime (with video). I recently bought a nice big TV for my basement den and while it has Netflix and Amazon apps built-in, Comcast blocks you from authorizing the AndroidTV HBOGo app so I need to cast from my phone to watch that. And for cable shows, I'd need to rent another shitty cable box that doesn't work worth a damn anyway. So instead if it's not on Netflix or Amazon (god their TV app just got even worse) I often just fire up the VPN and stream a torrent. I've paid for the shows but I just don't want to rent another cable box or deal with casting from mobile. Programs like Popcorn Time are great in that you can bookmark your favorite shows, see which episodes you've already watched, search for new shows from a Netflix-type interface, and watch in 720 or 1080 on demand. If there was a legit option like this from Comcast (heh, that'll be the day) I'd gladly pay double what you pay to rent a cable box. It's really just that simple and it works much better than any Comcast gear despite being a hacky program with several forks and questionable approach. I don't hold any illusions about my entitled attitude. I understand that my convenience and preferences don't get to dictate the business policies of content creators and distributors and I know that just because I pay for stuff doesn't mean it's legal to violate copyright in this manner... ...but I don't feel that what I'm doing is particularly immoral even if not particularly legal. At some point I just take stock of how I do things and keep an eye out for better ways to do them. If I can find a way to improve my spare time and how I spend it, I don't mind finding my own ways to do so.

anexprogrammer 10y ago

It's much, much more than that. It's the only way to get an acceptable product. I have ALSO pirated everything I ever bought until very recently. DVDs included region forcing, and forced, unskippable adverts and copyright notices. Netflix, .mkvs and .mp4s just have the programme and titles. Usually someone, somewhere, has put effort into making a good quality rip saving me the time doing so, along with synchronised and corrected subtitles. For games, the major studios still feel annoying and restrictive copy protection is the way to go. I don't want a £30 game that requires me juggling collections of plastic disks, or an always on net connection to a licensing server they may turn off in a year or two anyway. So the noCD, no licensing server release is a necessary download for me. I tend to mostly buy GOG and independent studios putting out DRM free things these days. EU IV being about the only exception I can think of in the last 2 years. I'm not a fan of being data mined on how often and how far I read ebooks, listen to audiobooks. So first thing on buying a new ebook from Amazon is rip the protection to read it on my non-amazon reader. First thing to do with an audible book is convert to mp3. If either of those became unfeasible or impossible I would stop buying. Finally for music, we've had attempts with copy protections and Sony rootkits, but mostly my music collection is complete and they gave up on silly DRM attempts. I only need to rip new stuff that's not available in FLAC.

type0 10y ago
> I have ALSO pirated everything I ever bought until very recently. Pirating helps to sell their products, think of it as free advertisement, this is the thing movie studios, music producers and book publishers don't understand. I know folks that for each pirated book they keep buy a physical one, also friends that pirated some movie and by a word of mouth advertise to go and see it in the cinemas, music to buy and go to the concerts etc. If you can't see the product how would you know if it's worth buying? Therefore someone who pirates would never pay anyway and chasing them would make you less money not more!
userbinator 10y ago
DVDs included region forcing, and forced, unskippable adverts and copyright notices. Netflix, .mkvs and .mp4s just have the programme and titles. Succinctly summed up by this rather old image: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4369403959_fe90464b27_o.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4369403959_fe90464b27_o....

djhworld 10y ago

I'd say the opposite with regards to convenience, but maybe I've been away from the scene for a few years now Nowadays it seems more of a hassle to pirate content, especially here in the UK with torrent sites getting blocked by ISPs (necessitating a need for VPNs or proxy services) along with having to constantly find new sources for torrents as authorities crack down on sites like KickAssTorrents. I find it easier to just subscribe to Netflix and Spotify, but maybe I have more disposable income now that it doesn't bother me.

scrollaway 10y ago
I used to have a Spotify subscription. Then I moved out of Sweden and lost half my playlists. Never subscribed again. I never had a Netflix subscription because I don't have a good enough connection to stream high quality videos - Additionally, I rewatch some series a lot. It's simply more convenient to have them on my hard drive. The US gov is running around the internet policing copyright for very specific companies, acting like they're doing the world a favour. Calling everybody thieves. Threatening people with fines and prison. "You can just pay for a Netflix/Spotify subscription"... well, no, not everywhere and it's certainly not as convenient for everyone. Sidenote: Spotify's content bootstrapping was a dump of music from TPB. If it weren't for piracy, we wouldn't have spotify. The system is broken.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Sidenote2: Hollywood got started because of a move from NYC to get around having to pay licenses to Edison. Hollywood exists because they wanted to infringe the protections without paying. MPAA would prefer we didn't remember that.
  - mountaineer22 10y ago
    Do you think Edison was not a rent-seeker?
  - mind_heist 10y ago
    Hmm ...this is really interesting, I didn't know about 'Hollywood built on piracy' story at all. I did some research and found this interesting comment in one of the articles, which does seem to make sense. "The proponents of this myth seem to want to suggest an analogy: Hollywood was built by “outlaws”; now Hollywood has become the incumbent, seeking to stop the next generation of “outlaws”. But this is a false equivalence. The Pirate Bay (or Megaupload, etc.) isn’t producing its own movies. Recognizing exclusive rights to a creative work doesn’t prohibit anyone from creating their own works. Stopping someone from offering copies, especially complete, verbatim copies, of a work is not anti-competitive." from : http://www.copyhype.com/2012/05/was-hollywood-built-on-piracy/ http://www.copyhype.com/2012/05/was-hollywood-built-on-pirac...

naviehuynh 10y ago

It can be free but not that convenient. Pirated content needs to be checked to make sure it's not fake nor malicious, not to mention the technical downsides of the torrent protocol (large bandwidth consumption, insecure, easy to block, slow speed on non port-forwarding routers etc) It's much easier to buy and download games on Steam or watch movies on Netflix nowadays.

L-four 10y ago
In many places this is still not the case.
themihai 10y ago
The titles available on Netflix(at least in the EU/UK) are laughable. I have both Netflix and Amazon prime(which has pretty much the same content).
tempestn 10y ago
For movies you can find on Netflix that's absolutely true. The difference is that effectively anything can be found via torrent or nzb, while the catalog of any single paid provider, even netflix, is relatively limited. You might get reasonable coverage (although still not as complete) by combining a number of subscription services, but the 'ease' advantage quickly disappears. I would happily pay a significant multiplier on what I pay for Netflix in order to legally stream any reasonably popular movie released within the past few years, plus a decent selection of older ones. IE, roughly what you would find at your average Blockbuster 10 years ago. (A similar selection of TV shows would be nice too.) Things may be improving, but they're definitely not there yet.
- josho 10y ago
  In this thread why are the rental options like iTunes not being discussed? Those distribution channels have the convenience of streaming, and a deep catalog. Is it because everyone wants all the movies for $10/mth or less rather than $5 a show?
  - 10y ago

adrianN 10y ago

The legal alternatives just don't have the content I'd like to see. The Netflix catalog for example contains maybe one out of ten movies I'm looking for, whereas it is easy to find even obscure movies using torrents. If you like older or less popular movies you're generally out of luck. At best you can find a DVD, but that won't work for movies that weren't even released in your region. I don't understand why it is so hard for the studios to offer their whole catalog online and let me download a movie for a buck or two. Add the possibility for user-submitted subtitles and you have an excellent competitor to piracy.

_jomo 10y ago

I would actually be willing to pay the Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Spotify price if torrenting became legal. For me, convenience + technical and quality advantages are a major factor. Much more than having it for free.

nabla9 10y ago

Torrent sites have huge advantage over streaming services is that they can distribute all content. If streaming services had everything, people would pick one based on price and quality of the actual streaming gladly pay more than current prices are. There is no change in hell that customers pay for Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Amazon at the same time. There is obvious business solution for this. Content producers should provide their shows and movies for all streaming services for same price. Streaming services would just exist to stream data and distribute payments from customers. Current business model of streaming is working against "the internet" and torrents are way to get around it.

jpalomaki 10y ago
My understanding is that in US many people are paying quite much for cable. One article says the average monthly bill is $100. http://bgr.com/2015/09/09/cable-tv-bill-price-100/ http://bgr.com/2015/09/09/cable-tv-bill-price-100/ No idea if that is true or how many people are putting that much money for contents on monthly basis. Compared to the streaming services this is quite much and with that money you could get a monthly subscription to several services.

soylentcola 10y ago

Convenience is definitely a factor. We pay for cable TV, Netflix, HBO, and Amazon Prime (with video). I recently bought a nice big TV for my basement den and while it has Netflix and Amazon apps built-in, Comcast blocks you from authorizing the AndroidTV HBOGo app so I need to cast from my phone to watch that. And for cable shows, I'd need to rent another shitty cable box that doesn't work worth a damn anyway. So instead if it's not on Netflix or Amazon (god their TV app just got even worse) I often just fire up the VPN and stream a torrent. I've paid for the shows but I just don't want to rent another cable box or deal with casting from mobile. Programs like Popcorn Time are great in that you can bookmark your favorite shows, see which episodes you've already watched, search for new shows from a Netflix-type interface, and watch in 720 or 1080 on demand. If there was a legit option like this from Comcast (heh, that'll be the day) I'd gladly pay double what you pay to rent a cable box. It's really just that simple and it works much better than any Comcast gear despite being a hacky program with several forks and questionable approach. I don't hold any illusions about my entitled attitude. I understand that my convenience and preferences don't get to dictate the business policies of content creators and distributors and I know that just because I pay for stuff doesn't mean it's legal to violate copyright in this manner... ...but I don't feel that what I'm doing is particularly immoral even if not particularly legal. At some point I just take stock of how I do things and keep an eye out for better ways to do them. If I can find a way to improve my spare time and how I spend it, I don't mind finding my own ways to do so.