4 ms·

> Why can't we scan and use OCR those clay tablets? Possibly for the same reason you can't scan 88-year-old images of Mickey Mouse without being sued by Disney

> Why can't we scan and use OCR those clay tablets? Possibly for the same reason you can't scan 88-year-old images of Mickey Mouse without being sued by Disney. The academics who control things like that are protective with their finds (even if they didn't find it, but got control). The Dead Sea Scrolls weren't published for decades because the scholars who got to them first wouldn't let anyone else see them[1]; they got published only after the government intervened. One scholar even sued[2] another over copyright infringement for publishing the words he painstakingly copied off the scrolls; the guy he sued had merely copied his copy of the 2000-year-old words. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls#Publication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls#Publication [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls#Ownership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls#Ownership

gilleain 10y ago
This is all very true, however even if they _did_ want to scan them, it's not just like scanning a bunch of papers. I sat next to a guy working on the Genizah project (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/genizah https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/genizah) and saw a tiny bit of the difficulties in doing something similar. - Presumably these clay tablets have to be handled carefully when scanned - These scans would ideally be high-resolution, requiring specialist equipment (I guess the BM has such equipment, but other institutions?) - Once scanned, the images have to be stored somewhere (for how long?) with backups, etc - To serve up the images to interested scholars, there has to be a system in place (over the web; is there authentication?; is it free?) - Collaborating with other institutions who have done the same... So lawsuits are only one of the problems with "just" scanning and OCR-ing. Still possible, of course.
- coldpie 10y ago
  Tangentially related, but people who are interested in digitally archiving ancient materials might enjoy reading this article from one of my favorite blogs: https://medievalbooks.nl/2015/12/18/x-rays-expose-a-hidden-medieval-library/ https://medievalbooks.nl/2015/12/18/x-rays-expose-a-hidden-m...
coldtea 10y ago
>Possibly for the same reason you can't scan 88-year-old images of Mickey Mouse without being sued by Disney. You mean besides the scientific (or at least practical, at the current level of OCR/machine learning) impossibility of what the parent suggests? Plus, I don't think parent asks why don't WE scan/ocr/machine learn translate them, but why the archeological community doesn't.
- koolba 10y ago
  > Plus, I don't think parent asks why don't WE scan/ocr/machine learn translate them, but why the archeological community doesn't. Pure speculation but if it's like any other scientific community the pressure to be the first to publish would take control. Releasing scans, pictures, etc would allow someone else to beat you to the punch which means they'll get the fame and future funding.
  - washadjeffmad 10y ago
    Which is fine if you're going to job security or trying to extract funding for the duration of your career, but being first to publicly publish proof of ownership and work done is a pretty surefire way to claim credit.
- grkvlt 10y ago
  > besides the scientific (or at least practical, at the current level of OCR/machine learning) impossibility I'd hardly say impossible. It's being done, today. See this article:https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/sonstiges/meldungen/detail/artikel/tontafeln/ https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/sonstiges/meldungen/detail/a... or these papers: http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_10_digital_preservation_of_ancient_cuneiform_tablets_using_3d_scanning.pdf http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_10_digit... and https://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/cuneiform/cuneiform-300dpi-images.pdf https://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/cuneiform/cuneiform-300... These describe scanning of ancient clay tablets, for archival and information retrieval purposes. Note that the Johns Hopkins research on archiving is from 2003. I suspect the blocker may be money, rather than practicality; these aren't simple flatbed scanners, the tables must be scanned in 3D to recover the full detail required. But, it's an incredibly fascinating area of research to read about. EDIT - So, I did some more reading, and it seems that the Johns Hopkins work I referenced above is part of The Digital Hammurabi Project which is doing exactly this, archiving cuneiform tablets, described here: http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_03_Museums%20and%20the%20Web%20Conference%202003.pdf http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_03_Museu... with more information on the projects website: http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/ http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/

gilleain 10y ago

This is all very true, however even if they _did_ want to scan them, it's not just like scanning a bunch of papers. I sat next to a guy working on the Genizah project (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/genizah https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/genizah) and saw a tiny bit of the difficulties in doing something similar. - Presumably these clay tablets have to be handled carefully when scanned - These scans would ideally be high-resolution, requiring specialist equipment (I guess the BM has such equipment, but other institutions?) - Once scanned, the images have to be stored somewhere (for how long?) with backups, etc - To serve up the images to interested scholars, there has to be a system in place (over the web; is there authentication?; is it free?) - Collaborating with other institutions who have done the same... So lawsuits are only one of the problems with "just" scanning and OCR-ing. Still possible, of course.

coldpie 10y ago
Tangentially related, but people who are interested in digitally archiving ancient materials might enjoy reading this article from one of my favorite blogs: https://medievalbooks.nl/2015/12/18/x-rays-expose-a-hidden-medieval-library/ https://medievalbooks.nl/2015/12/18/x-rays-expose-a-hidden-m...

coldtea 10y ago

>Possibly for the same reason you can't scan 88-year-old images of Mickey Mouse without being sued by Disney. You mean besides the scientific (or at least practical, at the current level of OCR/machine learning) impossibility of what the parent suggests? Plus, I don't think parent asks why don't WE scan/ocr/machine learn translate them, but why the archeological community doesn't.

koolba 10y ago
> Plus, I don't think parent asks why don't WE scan/ocr/machine learn translate them, but why the archeological community doesn't. Pure speculation but if it's like any other scientific community the pressure to be the first to publish would take control. Releasing scans, pictures, etc would allow someone else to beat you to the punch which means they'll get the fame and future funding.
- washadjeffmad 10y ago
  Which is fine if you're going to job security or trying to extract funding for the duration of your career, but being first to publicly publish proof of ownership and work done is a pretty surefire way to claim credit.
grkvlt 10y ago
> besides the scientific (or at least practical, at the current level of OCR/machine learning) impossibility I'd hardly say impossible. It's being done, today. See this article:https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/sonstiges/meldungen/detail/artikel/tontafeln/ https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/en/sonstiges/meldungen/detail/a... or these papers: http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_10_digital_preservation_of_ancient_cuneiform_tablets_using_3d_scanning.pdf http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_10_digit... and https://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/cuneiform/cuneiform-300dpi-images.pdf https://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/cuneiform/cuneiform-300... These describe scanning of ancient clay tablets, for archival and information retrieval purposes. Note that the Johns Hopkins research on archiving is from 2003. I suspect the blocker may be money, rather than practicality; these aren't simple flatbed scanners, the tables must be scanned in 3D to recover the full detail required. But, it's an incredibly fascinating area of research to read about. EDIT - So, I did some more reading, and it seems that the Johns Hopkins work I referenced above is part of The Digital Hammurabi Project which is doing exactly this, archiving cuneiform tablets, described here: http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_03_Museums%20and%20the%20Web%20Conference%202003.pdf http://pages.jh.edu/~dighamm/version2/research/2003_03_Museu... with more information on the projects website: http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/ http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/