6 ms·

I've heard this sentiment before. Every year since 2000 has been proclaimed the year of consumer Linux. Yeah, sure, 2010 is the one and Ubuntu will do it. I've

I've heard this sentiment before. Every year since 2000 has been proclaimed the year of consumer Linux. Yeah, sure, 2010 is the one and Ubuntu will do it. I've been testing every single release of Ubuntu, Fedora, and OpenSUSE on my laptop for the past few years and never did any last more than a few weeks. It's just too abrasive an experience. Sadly, I will download and try this year's crop and, predictably, they will be rubbish. And next year, it will be the same story again.

rufugee 17y ago
Apparently you live in an alternate universe. I've been using Linux for my desktop OS since 1999, and Ubuntu since 2004, and it's been a consistently great experience. Sure, there are warts on occasion, but that's true with all OSes. Ubuntu has been solid enough to keep me productive by day (as a CTO of a company of over 1000 employees), and by night (as a consultant). I even bought a MacBook Pro last year and gave OS X a try. It lasted around a month. My frustration with its completely odd UI design decisions, dismal package management (ports, fink), and second-class treatment of open source software led me to install Ubuntu on the laptop and wipe OS X. Couldn't be happier with it now. 2010 may not be the year of Linux on the consumer desktop, but it's another year of Linux on my desktop, and I couldn't be happier.
- bjelkeman-again 17y ago
  Dismal package management. The article talks about a consumer OS. My mom would have a fit using Ubuntu and demand her Windows 95 back if I replaced her Mac OS X (which I moved her onto) with Ubuntu. :) For a CTO, like you, with technical skills I think Ubuntu really can work, specially if open source software is important. But as a consumer operating system? I think the iPhone OS is closer to what my mom needs than what Windows 7 or Mac OS X is. Of course, consumers gets more tech savvy as time goes...
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - Tichy 17y ago
    I've had my mum on Ubuntu for 3 years now, she's fine with it. Because of the package manager and repositories I think Ubuntu is the best OS for mums: all the updates happen automatically. What special needs does your mum have?
    - rdtsc 17y ago
      Ditto for my mom. She would not trade her Ubuntu OS for anything else. I showed her Mac OS X and Windows Vista and she said they are both hard to use and confusing for her. She has been using Ubuntu for 4 years now. Granted, I administer it for her remotely. But she goes online, reads email, chats, uses Skype, and so on.
- ugh 17y ago
  “alternate universe” No alternate universe needed. Different people don’t have to have the same requirements and preferences. No one right screw for the one right nut. People and Operating Systems are sadly|luckily quite a bit more complicated than that. That’s just why discussions about the general superiority of any one Operating System are always so horrendously stupid. (This sentence is a general comment and not a response to you. You specifically write about your needs and your needs only, no claims of general superiority involved. Just to clarify.)
- pierrefar 17y ago
  I'm very happy you've found that Linux serves your desktop needs. For me, I would never host on anything but Linux or FreeBSD, and my phone is a G1 Android. But your desktop is only one of ~1-2% of desktops that use Linux. The "alternate universe", i.e. the 98%+ of the world, are happy with Windows or OSX, some of them by choice. Your clearly a very happy with Linux, but don't project this happiness on others. The open source world could learn a lot from the story of Firefox. When the market was frustrated with a slow and insecure IE, Firefox came along being very fast and secure. Us geeks loved it, recommended it to non-techie friends and, these benefits were important to them too. What benefit does desktop Linux give me? The only real new benefit coming in Linux is the fast boot up. That is a real consumer benefit. I can't think of another real benefit in the current crop of distros.
  - matclayton 17y ago
    The other real tangible benefit is $$$ certainly compared to the top end Windows releases, although the snow leopard price is hardly a deal breaker.
    - pierrefar 17y ago
      In terms of absolute money number saved, yes absolutely. But how much do you value your time in terms of learning and setting up a different OS?
      - jorgecastillo 17y ago
        I live in a third world country so at least my time is pretty cheap compared to a license. Some hours reading the manual, web searching or asking in forums vs (26 8-hours working days) x ($15[The average income in my region]).* Most people use Windows but have it unlicensed. I am not rich so yeah Linux look dirt cheap to me and I don't even use Linux I use OpenBSD. I definitely think the government should push open source in all areas we would be better off. Right now kids are learning to use Windows XP, Microsoft Office, Coral Draw, Flash and Visual basic 6. I have to remark that they are learning all this stuff in fairly mediocre way. Also don't forget government and public institutions sites that are non standards compliant and flash heavy. *In my comparison $1 = 10 Pesos. The price of Windows 7 Ultimate is 4,004.17 Pesos in Mexico.
- swombat 17y ago
  Why do you feel the need to do consulting work at night if you're the CTO of a 1000+ people company?
  - tome 17y ago
    He says "Ubuntu has been" so perhaps he means he has been CTO and consultant at different times.
    - rufugee 17y ago
      No. Consulting on the side allows me to keep my skills sharp on the development side. I am a coder and entrepreneur at heart, and being a CTO by day doesn't provide a lot of hands-on coding opportunities.
  - euroclydon 17y ago
    Some people: 1) get bored at their day job. 2) need it to pay the bills. 3) can't get motivated to try out new technology, unless there is a REAL customer willing to pay.
- herval 17y ago
  so the guy lives in an alternative universe because YOU like Linux?
  - Tichy 17y ago
    It disproves the claim that Linux is unusable.
    - herval 17y ago
      so if I proclaim that you don't exist in my universe, then you will magically disappear and it will count as proof? there's enough room in the world for people to like ANYTHING. Just because a minority likes something (say, eating human flesh?) it doesn't justify it as 'right', 'good' or even 'common'....
      - Tichy 17y ago
        Well if there is at least one person who can use Linux, it is obviously usable. I don't understand what you are getting at? Are we working on the assumption that Linux is unusable, and we have to provide sufficient proof of the opposite? Why would we approach the issue that way?
    - tptacek 17y ago
      No it doesn't. I used Linux and FreeBSD as my desktop pretty much throughout all of the 1990s. Was Linux ever a "usable" desktop operating system in the '90s?
      - Tichy 17y ago
        I don't know, was it a "consistently great experience", as the other comment said?
        tptacek 17y ago
        It was if you liked using GDB to start your mail reader.
- tvon 17y ago
  First, that's a lot of up-votes (+25) for a completely subjective, "personal experience" response (call that my critique to the community). As for your comment itself, you've been using Linux since 1999, of course the current state of affairs is going to seem fantastic to you. In 1999 installing linux was a big console-based adventure full of unknowns and question marks... things today are obviously much, much simpler. Point being, your perspective on "Linux for the Consumer Desktop" is highly skewed. I mean, if asked a year ago, or two years ago, would you have said much differently?
  - papachito 17y ago
    > In 1999 installing linux was a big console-based adventure full of unknowns and question marks... things today are obviously much, much simpler Except it wasn't with distros like Mandrake (now mandriva), no matter how much linux haters like to repeat that lie, Linux has been easy to install for the last 10 years. Now try to install OSX on anything else than a Mac, you'll have fun. If you don't want to have installation issues, get a pre-installed machine.
- alanthonyc 17y ago
  Off topc: does the multi-touch track pad work with Linux on your Mac?
electromagnetic 17y ago
Agreed, I've never tested a Ubuntu operating system that had the same usability feel as windows (which is my current OS more by habit than choice), or even that has the same refined-but-alien feel of using OS X (I've rarely had grasp of a mac for longer than a few hours, but despite feeling alien I can still navigate and do everything I can with windows, simply because I'm computer-savy), but Linux never even achieves that feeling. It has an unrefined ad-hoc feel to it, things don't seem right or straight.
- aw3c2 17y ago
  Trust me, if you used Linux for some time you will feel the same about Windows. I certainly do. It starts with installing programs by download installers, goes over not having windows dock on each other and ends with having no useful terminal.
  - barrkel 17y ago
    How are commercial apps normally installed on Linux? (I'm presuming it's not by downloading installers.) I'm not a fan of arbitrary window docking - I have my own layout system based on cascading - while Cygwin rxvt provides most of what I want out of a terminal, shell etc.
    - gizmo 17y ago
      You download installers, just like you would for Windows. If you want to install Komodo IDE for Linux you download the tarball and double-click the excutable (or start it from a console). Want to install github firewall install? Download tarball, double-click excutable.
    - stonemetal 17y ago
      Actually it is by downloading installers(or at least it has been in my experience. Houdini, Java, etc. )
      - Tichy 17y ago
dalore 17y ago
You haven't actually said why it was an abrasive experience. Plenty of people are happy with Ubuntu as a desktop.
rbanffy 17y ago
> Every year since 2000 has been proclaimed the year of consumer Linux People have been overly optimistc in the past, but I think even the less tech savvy can use Linux by now.

rufugee 17y ago

Apparently you live in an alternate universe. I've been using Linux for my desktop OS since 1999, and Ubuntu since 2004, and it's been a consistently great experience. Sure, there are warts on occasion, but that's true with all OSes. Ubuntu has been solid enough to keep me productive by day (as a CTO of a company of over 1000 employees), and by night (as a consultant). I even bought a MacBook Pro last year and gave OS X a try. It lasted around a month. My frustration with its completely odd UI design decisions, dismal package management (ports, fink), and second-class treatment of open source software led me to install Ubuntu on the laptop and wipe OS X. Couldn't be happier with it now. 2010 may not be the year of Linux on the consumer desktop, but it's another year of Linux on my desktop, and I couldn't be happier.

bjelkeman-again 17y ago
Dismal package management. The article talks about a consumer OS. My mom would have a fit using Ubuntu and demand her Windows 95 back if I replaced her Mac OS X (which I moved her onto) with Ubuntu. :) For a CTO, like you, with technical skills I think Ubuntu really can work, specially if open source software is important. But as a consumer operating system? I think the iPhone OS is closer to what my mom needs than what Windows 7 or Mac OS X is. Of course, consumers gets more tech savvy as time goes...
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- Tichy 17y ago
  I've had my mum on Ubuntu for 3 years now, she's fine with it. Because of the package manager and repositories I think Ubuntu is the best OS for mums: all the updates happen automatically. What special needs does your mum have?
  - rdtsc 17y ago
    Ditto for my mom. She would not trade her Ubuntu OS for anything else. I showed her Mac OS X and Windows Vista and she said they are both hard to use and confusing for her. She has been using Ubuntu for 4 years now. Granted, I administer it for her remotely. But she goes online, reads email, chats, uses Skype, and so on.
ugh 17y ago
“alternate universe” No alternate universe needed. Different people don’t have to have the same requirements and preferences. No one right screw for the one right nut. People and Operating Systems are sadly|luckily quite a bit more complicated than that. That’s just why discussions about the general superiority of any one Operating System are always so horrendously stupid. (This sentence is a general comment and not a response to you. You specifically write about your needs and your needs only, no claims of general superiority involved. Just to clarify.)
pierrefar 17y ago
I'm very happy you've found that Linux serves your desktop needs. For me, I would never host on anything but Linux or FreeBSD, and my phone is a G1 Android. But your desktop is only one of ~1-2% of desktops that use Linux. The "alternate universe", i.e. the 98%+ of the world, are happy with Windows or OSX, some of them by choice. Your clearly a very happy with Linux, but don't project this happiness on others. The open source world could learn a lot from the story of Firefox. When the market was frustrated with a slow and insecure IE, Firefox came along being very fast and secure. Us geeks loved it, recommended it to non-techie friends and, these benefits were important to them too. What benefit does desktop Linux give me? The only real new benefit coming in Linux is the fast boot up. That is a real consumer benefit. I can't think of another real benefit in the current crop of distros.
- matclayton 17y ago
  The other real tangible benefit is $$$ certainly compared to the top end Windows releases, although the snow leopard price is hardly a deal breaker.
  - pierrefar 17y ago
    In terms of absolute money number saved, yes absolutely. But how much do you value your time in terms of learning and setting up a different OS?
    - jorgecastillo 17y ago
      I live in a third world country so at least my time is pretty cheap compared to a license. Some hours reading the manual, web searching or asking in forums vs (26 8-hours working days) x ($15[The average income in my region]).* Most people use Windows but have it unlicensed. I am not rich so yeah Linux look dirt cheap to me and I don't even use Linux I use OpenBSD. I definitely think the government should push open source in all areas we would be better off. Right now kids are learning to use Windows XP, Microsoft Office, Coral Draw, Flash and Visual basic 6. I have to remark that they are learning all this stuff in fairly mediocre way. Also don't forget government and public institutions sites that are non standards compliant and flash heavy. *In my comparison $1 = 10 Pesos. The price of Windows 7 Ultimate is 4,004.17 Pesos in Mexico.
swombat 17y ago
Why do you feel the need to do consulting work at night if you're the CTO of a 1000+ people company?
- tome 17y ago
  He says "Ubuntu has been" so perhaps he means he has been CTO and consultant at different times.
  - rufugee 17y ago
    No. Consulting on the side allows me to keep my skills sharp on the development side. I am a coder and entrepreneur at heart, and being a CTO by day doesn't provide a lot of hands-on coding opportunities.
- euroclydon 17y ago
  Some people: 1) get bored at their day job. 2) need it to pay the bills. 3) can't get motivated to try out new technology, unless there is a REAL customer willing to pay.
herval 17y ago
so the guy lives in an alternative universe because YOU like Linux?
- Tichy 17y ago
  It disproves the claim that Linux is unusable.
  - herval 17y ago
    so if I proclaim that you don't exist in my universe, then you will magically disappear and it will count as proof? there's enough room in the world for people to like ANYTHING. Just because a minority likes something (say, eating human flesh?) it doesn't justify it as 'right', 'good' or even 'common'....
    - Tichy 17y ago
      Well if there is at least one person who can use Linux, it is obviously usable. I don't understand what you are getting at? Are we working on the assumption that Linux is unusable, and we have to provide sufficient proof of the opposite? Why would we approach the issue that way?
  - tptacek 17y ago
    No it doesn't. I used Linux and FreeBSD as my desktop pretty much throughout all of the 1990s. Was Linux ever a "usable" desktop operating system in the '90s?
    - Tichy 17y ago
      I don't know, was it a "consistently great experience", as the other comment said?
      - tptacek 17y ago
        It was if you liked using GDB to start your mail reader.
tvon 17y ago
First, that's a lot of up-votes (+25) for a completely subjective, "personal experience" response (call that my critique to the community). As for your comment itself, you've been using Linux since 1999, of course the current state of affairs is going to seem fantastic to you. In 1999 installing linux was a big console-based adventure full of unknowns and question marks... things today are obviously much, much simpler. Point being, your perspective on "Linux for the Consumer Desktop" is highly skewed. I mean, if asked a year ago, or two years ago, would you have said much differently?
- papachito 17y ago
  > In 1999 installing linux was a big console-based adventure full of unknowns and question marks... things today are obviously much, much simpler Except it wasn't with distros like Mandrake (now mandriva), no matter how much linux haters like to repeat that lie, Linux has been easy to install for the last 10 years. Now try to install OSX on anything else than a Mac, you'll have fun. If you don't want to have installation issues, get a pre-installed machine.
alanthonyc 17y ago
Off topc: does the multi-touch track pad work with Linux on your Mac?

electromagnetic 17y ago

Agreed, I've never tested a Ubuntu operating system that had the same usability feel as windows (which is my current OS more by habit than choice), or even that has the same refined-but-alien feel of using OS X (I've rarely had grasp of a mac for longer than a few hours, but despite feeling alien I can still navigate and do everything I can with windows, simply because I'm computer-savy), but Linux never even achieves that feeling. It has an unrefined ad-hoc feel to it, things don't seem right or straight.

aw3c2 17y ago
Trust me, if you used Linux for some time you will feel the same about Windows. I certainly do. It starts with installing programs by download installers, goes over not having windows dock on each other and ends with having no useful terminal.
- barrkel 17y ago
  How are commercial apps normally installed on Linux? (I'm presuming it's not by downloading installers.) I'm not a fan of arbitrary window docking - I have my own layout system based on cascading - while Cygwin rxvt provides most of what I want out of a terminal, shell etc.
  - gizmo 17y ago
    You download installers, just like you would for Windows. If you want to install Komodo IDE for Linux you download the tarball and double-click the excutable (or start it from a console). Want to install github firewall install? Download tarball, double-click excutable.
  - stonemetal 17y ago
    Actually it is by downloading installers(or at least it has been in my experience. Houdini, Java, etc. )
    - Tichy 17y ago

dalore 17y ago

You haven't actually said why it was an abrasive experience. Plenty of people are happy with Ubuntu as a desktop.

rbanffy 17y ago

> Every year since 2000 has been proclaimed the year of consumer Linux People have been overly optimistc in the past, but I think even the less tech savvy can use Linux by now.