10 ms·

Resurrecting the Flower Crowns of Old Ukrainian Wedding Photos

64 points by lermontov 10y ago

amykyta 10y ago
I am from Western Ukraine and while I have seen women wear crowns of woven flowers I didn't know that there was such a beautiful wedding tradition. Or the fact that it's being resurrected for the sake of peacefully asserting Ukrainian nationalism in the face of armed conflict and occupation by Russia.
- trhway 10y ago
  >peacefully asserting Ukrainian nationalism that euphemism reminded about another one - "train of friendship", a train or a convoy of buses loaded with skinheads from ultra-nationalist para-military organizations like "Right Sector", mostly from Western Ukraine, and bound for villages/cities with significant ethnic Russian share of population. One can see how the "train of friendship" is trying to keep alive traditions of those pastoral peaceful Western Ukrainian peasants with their floral crowns and national dresses: "According to Polish historian Piotr Łossowski, the method used in most of the attacks was the same. At first, local Poles were assured that nothing would happen to them. Then, at dawn, a village was surrounded by armed members of UPA, behind whom were peasants with axes, hammers, knives, and saws. All the Poles encountered were murdered; sometimes they were herded into one spot, to make it easier. After a massacre, all goods were looted, including clothes, grain, and furniture. The final part of an attack was setting fire to the village.[106] In many cases, victims were tortured and their bodies mutilated. All vestiges of Polish existence eradicated with even abandoned Polish settlements burned to the ground.[56]" Note: i'm 50% Ukranian (Kiev region), 50% Russian.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    Where did you get this from? It sounds like a mix of 1930-40ies (mass murders in northern Europe) and late 1960-90ies (skinheads).
    - vkazanov 10y ago
      Get what? You didn't hear about the Volyn massacre?
      - empthought 10y ago
        It doesn't have anything to do with the link, or even much of anything relevant today. Poland isn't currently occupying portions of Ukraine.
      - reitanqild 10y ago
        No. Until now it was just one of the many atrocities in Eastern Europe for me. I am sorry for that, I know Eastern Europe has suffered an awful lot but I don't know the exact details. Then again, like I asked yesterday: what does it have to do with skinheads?
    - trhway 10y ago
      >It sounds like a mix of 1930-40ies (mass murders in northern Europe) and late 1960-90ies (skinheads). it is the same continuing fight of Western Ukraine nationalists for the expansion of their territory. In 2014 it were volunteer battalions from Western Ukraine that rushed across the country to "pacify" the Eastern Ukraine Russians. Only this time it weren't helpless Poles, and the Russian tank battalions tore those "pacifiers" a new one near Illovaysk.
  - empthought 10y ago
    I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with flower crowns?
    - varjag 10y ago
      You are experiencing a rather typical Russian reaction to an expression of national identity by people others than Russians.
      - viach 10y ago
        You just said something about the whole nation, right?
        varjag 10y ago
        I said "typical", not everyone. But guess you have a point, even if not in the way you intended. Any other reaction is so unusual these days that a generalization is unavoidable.
        viach 10y ago
        I see your point. But I think that with this kind of generalization you feed the fire of hate, imo
        varjag 10y ago
        Any retort on any sensitive topic can be argued as fanning the flames of hate, as disagreement clearly not going to pacify anyone. The problem with is, if you don't express your dissent, hold yourself "above all that", bite your tongue, you let them run their narrative unchallenged. Being from Belarus I used to have plenty acquaintances and relatives in Russia; perhaps three of them did not succumb to self-righteous jingoism and hate in the last couple years. I admire the few people there who have strength and stamina to remain sane. But they are not any more representative of Russia now than few sane Germans were of Germany in 1939.
    - 10y ago
sandworm101 10y ago
The headdresses are cool, but the models wearing them also have a story. The modern models all look over eighteen. As they are wearing wedding garb, the photographer chose adult women. Young, but still adults. The 'models' in the historical photos are not. They are children by today's standards. Also, they are much more robust people. They are round-faced well-fed healthy people. The modern models are much thinner, with very different faces despite the obvious racial similarity. You see this in nearly every historical recreation. No matter how we try, our modern sensibilities are very difficult to overcome.
- codezero 10y ago
  I pretty much agree, though their Instagram has a wider variety of models (by age at least) https://www.instagram.com/third_roosters/ https://www.instagram.com/third_roosters/ Also their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/TretiPivni/ https://www.facebook.com/TretiPivni/
lisivka 10y ago
> Now, when the country is again fighting against Russia—the conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russia-allied separatist that started in 2014 is still ongoing, despite an official ceasefire—these wreaths are doing the same symbolic work. It is not true. Russia invaded directly into Crimea and East Ukraine, with very little help from locals. Moreover, Russians says on video that locals don't want to war. 70% of people in East Ukraine are Ukrainians, anyway. Official version was that Russia need to protect Russian-speaking Ukrainians from other Ukrainians, because they will kill them.
- trhway 10y ago
  >the country is again fighting against Russia i wonder when was the previous fight? Does it mean the fight between Soviet Red Army and Ukranian nationalists forces OUN/UPA during WWII? Those OUN/UPA who collaborated with Nazi, and performed the genocide of Poles and Jews, in particular in Lviv region where Ukranian population was only 10% before the genocide. The forces that came to power in Kiev in February 2014 have always celebrated the leaders of the OUN/UPA (i.e. Bandera, Shushkevich and the likes) and have made them official heroes of Ukraine since then. No wonder that Russians in Donbass(30+%) and Russians in Crimea(60%) felt that it is "time to go" when these forces took power by coup and the very first act of the new regime during the first days in power was the "[Anti Russian] language law". The message was pretty clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia... "The killings were directly linked with the policies of the Bandera faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose goal as specified at the Second Conference of the OUN-B on 17–23 February 1943 (or March 1943 according to other sources) was to purge all non-Ukrainians from the future Ukrainian state."
  - lisivka 10y ago
    Previous war was between Ukrainian People Republic and fake Kharkiv People Republic createded by Russia. OUN/UPA does not collaborate with Nazi after declaring of independence of Ukraine in Lviv in September 1941. More than 600 of OUN members were executed in Babi Yar by Germans. Leader of OUN, Stepan Bandera was German prisoner until end of war. See Nuremberg documents for more details. Just warning: it is officially prohibited to review results of Nuremberg process. Quote from Wikipedia: A captured German document of November 25, 1941 (Nuremberg Trial O14-USSR) ordered: "It has been ascertained that the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated..."[43] Yep, main target of OUN was to free Ukraine from Polish colonists and stop Polonization of Ukrainians (AKA Pacification). However, Volynia massacre was response to German operation against Ukrainian partisans with help of local Polish military police formed from Polish colonists at territory of Ukraine. OUN/UPA were not involved as organizations, only their members. Official documents of OUN/UPA stated that they wanted to keep peace with Polish people at that time because of greater threat from Germany and USSR. > No wonder that Russians in Donbass(30+%) and Russians in Crimea(60%) felt that it is "time to go" when the very first act of the new regime during the first days in power was the "[Anti-Russian] language law". Russians are always free to go back to Russia. Please, tell me more about "[Anti-Russian] language law". I never heard about that. Constitution of Ukraine says that Russian language is protected at Ukraine.
viach 10y ago
Oh my, I wish it was Indian feather crowns, at least there wouldnt be so much hate in comments russian vs ukrainian
VuongN 10y ago
Beautiful culture. It appears that headdresses are so much more than simple ornaments in pretty much all cultures. When I got married, as a Vietnamese male, I also wore the headdress. I think there's much more to Ukraine than what we read or don't read on the news. As someone from the outside looking in, my heart breaks for many friends in Ukraine who lost their homes. I wrote this for my Donetsk friends who had to uproot: http://nguonthieng.com/thirty-ba-muoi/story-of-the-wind.html http://nguonthieng.com/thirty-ba-muoi/story-of-the-wind.html

64 points by lermontov 10y ago

I am from Western Ukraine and while I have seen women wear crowns of woven flowers I didn't know that there was such a beautiful wedding tradition. Or the fact that it's being resurrected for the sake of peacefully asserting Ukrainian nationalism in the face of armed conflict and occupation by Russia.

trhway 10y ago
>peacefully asserting Ukrainian nationalism that euphemism reminded about another one - "train of friendship", a train or a convoy of buses loaded with skinheads from ultra-nationalist para-military organizations like "Right Sector", mostly from Western Ukraine, and bound for villages/cities with significant ethnic Russian share of population. One can see how the "train of friendship" is trying to keep alive traditions of those pastoral peaceful Western Ukrainian peasants with their floral crowns and national dresses: "According to Polish historian Piotr Łossowski, the method used in most of the attacks was the same. At first, local Poles were assured that nothing would happen to them. Then, at dawn, a village was surrounded by armed members of UPA, behind whom were peasants with axes, hammers, knives, and saws. All the Poles encountered were murdered; sometimes they were herded into one spot, to make it easier. After a massacre, all goods were looted, including clothes, grain, and furniture. The final part of an attack was setting fire to the village.[106] In many cases, victims were tortured and their bodies mutilated. All vestiges of Polish existence eradicated with even abandoned Polish settlements burned to the ground.[56]" Note: i'm 50% Ukranian (Kiev region), 50% Russian.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Where did you get this from? It sounds like a mix of 1930-40ies (mass murders in northern Europe) and late 1960-90ies (skinheads).
  - vkazanov 10y ago
    Get what? You didn't hear about the Volyn massacre?
    - empthought 10y ago
      It doesn't have anything to do with the link, or even much of anything relevant today. Poland isn't currently occupying portions of Ukraine.
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      No. Until now it was just one of the many atrocities in Eastern Europe for me. I am sorry for that, I know Eastern Europe has suffered an awful lot but I don't know the exact details. Then again, like I asked yesterday: what does it have to do with skinheads?
  - trhway 10y ago
    >It sounds like a mix of 1930-40ies (mass murders in northern Europe) and late 1960-90ies (skinheads). it is the same continuing fight of Western Ukraine nationalists for the expansion of their territory. In 2014 it were volunteer battalions from Western Ukraine that rushed across the country to "pacify" the Eastern Ukraine Russians. Only this time it weren't helpless Poles, and the Russian tank battalions tore those "pacifiers" a new one near Illovaysk.
- empthought 10y ago
  I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with flower crowns?
  - varjag 10y ago
    You are experiencing a rather typical Russian reaction to an expression of national identity by people others than Russians.
    - viach 10y ago
      You just said something about the whole nation, right?
      - varjag 10y ago
        I said "typical", not everyone. But guess you have a point, even if not in the way you intended. Any other reaction is so unusual these days that a generalization is unavoidable.
        viach 10y ago
        I see your point. But I think that with this kind of generalization you feed the fire of hate, imo
        varjag 10y ago
        Any retort on any sensitive topic can be argued as fanning the flames of hate, as disagreement clearly not going to pacify anyone. The problem with is, if you don't express your dissent, hold yourself "above all that", bite your tongue, you let them run their narrative unchallenged. Being from Belarus I used to have plenty acquaintances and relatives in Russia; perhaps three of them did not succumb to self-righteous jingoism and hate in the last couple years. I admire the few people there who have strength and stamina to remain sane. But they are not any more representative of Russia now than few sane Germans were of Germany in 1939.
  - 10y ago

sandworm101 10y ago

The headdresses are cool, but the models wearing them also have a story. The modern models all look over eighteen. As they are wearing wedding garb, the photographer chose adult women. Young, but still adults. The 'models' in the historical photos are not. They are children by today's standards. Also, they are much more robust people. They are round-faced well-fed healthy people. The modern models are much thinner, with very different faces despite the obvious racial similarity. You see this in nearly every historical recreation. No matter how we try, our modern sensibilities are very difficult to overcome.

codezero 10y ago
I pretty much agree, though their Instagram has a wider variety of models (by age at least) https://www.instagram.com/third_roosters/ https://www.instagram.com/third_roosters/ Also their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/TretiPivni/ https://www.facebook.com/TretiPivni/

lisivka 10y ago

> Now, when the country is again fighting against Russia—the conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russia-allied separatist that started in 2014 is still ongoing, despite an official ceasefire—these wreaths are doing the same symbolic work. It is not true. Russia invaded directly into Crimea and East Ukraine, with very little help from locals. Moreover, Russians says on video that locals don't want to war. 70% of people in East Ukraine are Ukrainians, anyway. Official version was that Russia need to protect Russian-speaking Ukrainians from other Ukrainians, because they will kill them.

trhway 10y ago
>the country is again fighting against Russia i wonder when was the previous fight? Does it mean the fight between Soviet Red Army and Ukranian nationalists forces OUN/UPA during WWII? Those OUN/UPA who collaborated with Nazi, and performed the genocide of Poles and Jews, in particular in Lviv region where Ukranian population was only 10% before the genocide. The forces that came to power in Kiev in February 2014 have always celebrated the leaders of the OUN/UPA (i.e. Bandera, Shushkevich and the likes) and have made them official heroes of Ukraine since then. No wonder that Russians in Donbass(30+%) and Russians in Crimea(60%) felt that it is "time to go" when these forces took power by coup and the very first act of the new regime during the first days in power was the "[Anti Russian] language law". The message was pretty clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia... "The killings were directly linked with the policies of the Bandera faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose goal as specified at the Second Conference of the OUN-B on 17–23 February 1943 (or March 1943 according to other sources) was to purge all non-Ukrainians from the future Ukrainian state."
- lisivka 10y ago
  Previous war was between Ukrainian People Republic and fake Kharkiv People Republic createded by Russia. OUN/UPA does not collaborate with Nazi after declaring of independence of Ukraine in Lviv in September 1941. More than 600 of OUN members were executed in Babi Yar by Germans. Leader of OUN, Stepan Bandera was German prisoner until end of war. See Nuremberg documents for more details. Just warning: it is officially prohibited to review results of Nuremberg process. Quote from Wikipedia: A captured German document of November 25, 1941 (Nuremberg Trial O14-USSR) ordered: "It has been ascertained that the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated..."[43] Yep, main target of OUN was to free Ukraine from Polish colonists and stop Polonization of Ukrainians (AKA Pacification). However, Volynia massacre was response to German operation against Ukrainian partisans with help of local Polish military police formed from Polish colonists at territory of Ukraine. OUN/UPA were not involved as organizations, only their members. Official documents of OUN/UPA stated that they wanted to keep peace with Polish people at that time because of greater threat from Germany and USSR. > No wonder that Russians in Donbass(30+%) and Russians in Crimea(60%) felt that it is "time to go" when the very first act of the new regime during the first days in power was the "[Anti-Russian] language law". Russians are always free to go back to Russia. Please, tell me more about "[Anti-Russian] language law". I never heard about that. Constitution of Ukraine says that Russian language is protected at Ukraine.

viach 10y ago

Oh my, I wish it was Indian feather crowns, at least there wouldnt be so much hate in comments russian vs ukrainian

VuongN 10y ago

Beautiful culture. It appears that headdresses are so much more than simple ornaments in pretty much all cultures. When I got married, as a Vietnamese male, I also wore the headdress. I think there's much more to Ukraine than what we read or don't read on the news. As someone from the outside looking in, my heart breaks for many friends in Ukraine who lost their homes. I wrote this for my Donetsk friends who had to uproot: http://nguonthieng.com/thirty-ba-muoi/story-of-the-wind.html http://nguonthieng.com/thirty-ba-muoi/story-of-the-wind.html