3 ms·

You're right, Tesla should just pack it in right now. They have no competitive advantage or product that anyone wants, and Nissan has far better prospects than

by tcoppi 10y ago

You're right, Tesla should just pack it in right now. They have no competitive advantage or product that anyone wants, and Nissan has far better prospects than Tesla ever had.

FireBeyond 10y ago
That's just snarky and completely misses the point. No-one said that. But you -did- say that Tesla is working this "completely new slice of the pie". Which they're not. Unless you artificially constrain it to a segment where only Tesla exists. Whilst the current Tesla models might well be "luxury electric", the upcoming stuff is entirely in the same segment as Nissan, hence the reply to you.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  I replied to snark with snark. Tesla is not just a car company. They are going to be the largest li-ion battery manufacturer, distributed energy provider(with the solarcity acquisition), energy storage provider, supply grid stabilization services(important when more of the generation is not base-load), and compete in the autonomous car sector. Its fine with me if people don't think those other areas are going to be profitable for Tesla, but thinking of them as just a car manufacturer is kind of missing the point. And those other areas I mentioned do make up a largely untapped pie that Tesla is poised to tap into.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    How is battery manufacturing an untapped pie? How is solar power an untapped pie? Energy storage provider is "battery at a bigger scale", similar with supply grid stabilization. And as far as I am aware the PowerWall has been a commercial failure, even among Tesla owners. I'm not sure how that will magically do a 180 now that Musk is going from "influential adviser" to "owner".
    - tcoppi 10y ago
      You are correct that the Powerwall isn't doing that well currently. The Powerwall is the home product, and its usefulness is directly tied to solar panels. The tie-in with SolarCity there should help with demand. There is the other side of Tesla Energy, which is the Powerpack. The Powerpack is the commercial/utility-scale product, available in quantities suitable for grid-level storage. They had over $1b worth of orders[1] for the Powerpack as of late last year, far more than they are capable of manufacturing currently. The Gigafactory opened slightly early to start producing those packs using Samsung cells, but eventually those will move to Panasonic cells as well. There is huge untapped demand just in batteries here that is only starting to surface and be fulfilled. Grid supply stabilization has more to do with smart grids/smart inverters applied to solar panel + battery installs. SolarCity has detailed it in some of their more recent town halls[2]. 1. http://fortune.com/2015/08/10/tesla-grid-battery/ http://fortune.com/2015/08/10/tesla-grid-battery/ 2. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/87401050 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/87401050
      - FireBeyond 10y ago
        Ahh, that's interesting - I didn't know of the Powerpack, that definitely seems more intriguing.

by tcoppi 10y ago

You're right, Tesla should just pack it in right now. They have no competitive advantage or product that anyone wants, and Nissan has far better prospects than Tesla ever had.

FireBeyond 10y ago

That's just snarky and completely misses the point. No-one said that. But you -did- say that Tesla is working this "completely new slice of the pie". Which they're not. Unless you artificially constrain it to a segment where only Tesla exists. Whilst the current Tesla models might well be "luxury electric", the upcoming stuff is entirely in the same segment as Nissan, hence the reply to you.

tcoppi 10y ago
I replied to snark with snark. Tesla is not just a car company. They are going to be the largest li-ion battery manufacturer, distributed energy provider(with the solarcity acquisition), energy storage provider, supply grid stabilization services(important when more of the generation is not base-load), and compete in the autonomous car sector. Its fine with me if people don't think those other areas are going to be profitable for Tesla, but thinking of them as just a car manufacturer is kind of missing the point. And those other areas I mentioned do make up a largely untapped pie that Tesla is poised to tap into.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  How is battery manufacturing an untapped pie? How is solar power an untapped pie? Energy storage provider is "battery at a bigger scale", similar with supply grid stabilization. And as far as I am aware the PowerWall has been a commercial failure, even among Tesla owners. I'm not sure how that will magically do a 180 now that Musk is going from "influential adviser" to "owner".
  - tcoppi 10y ago
    You are correct that the Powerwall isn't doing that well currently. The Powerwall is the home product, and its usefulness is directly tied to solar panels. The tie-in with SolarCity there should help with demand. There is the other side of Tesla Energy, which is the Powerpack. The Powerpack is the commercial/utility-scale product, available in quantities suitable for grid-level storage. They had over $1b worth of orders[1] for the Powerpack as of late last year, far more than they are capable of manufacturing currently. The Gigafactory opened slightly early to start producing those packs using Samsung cells, but eventually those will move to Panasonic cells as well. There is huge untapped demand just in batteries here that is only starting to surface and be fulfilled. Grid supply stabilization has more to do with smart grids/smart inverters applied to solar panel + battery installs. SolarCity has detailed it in some of their more recent town halls[2]. 1. http://fortune.com/2015/08/10/tesla-grid-battery/ http://fortune.com/2015/08/10/tesla-grid-battery/ 2. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/87401050 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/87401050
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      Ahh, that's interesting - I didn't know of the Powerpack, that definitely seems more intriguing.