6 ms·

> on her return from her honeymoon in Turkey Many people left UK to join ISIS or to be kidnapped... Syria is a warzone, and if you are travelling in/from that

by jkot 10y ago

> on her return from her honeymoon in Turkey Many people left UK to join ISIS or to be kidnapped... Syria is a warzone, and if you are travelling in/from that direction it will raise a questions. > Police officers questioned Shaheen for 15 minutes This article is a joke.

radiorental 10y ago
Could you clarify the point you're trying to make. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or voting for Trump. Poe's Law in effect.
- jkot 10y ago
  She was traveling Turkey > UK, that is usual path someone from Syria would take. That on its own is enough to raise questions. For some examples read related content under article. She was 'held' (original title was 'detained') for 15 minutes. That is not even rounding error at UK international airports. And half of the article is an ad for the book.
  - tgb 10y ago
    Your quote says it was the opposite flight when she was detained.
  - ksk 10y ago
    > that is usual path someone from Syria would take. That on its own is enough to raise questions. What nonsense. If dodgy individuals constantly feature on this route why does the flight even exist then? Just for "safe" non-brown non-black people? >She was 'held' (original title was 'detained') for 15 minutes. "Police officers questioned Shaheen for 15 minutes under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act, " Yeah, Under the terrorism act... For reading a book about art.
    - PJDK 10y ago
      No she was questioned for being reported as suspicious by a flight attendant. Given it was only for 15 minutes I imagine pretty quickly it became "oh, it's a book about art, bloody flight attendants are idiots. Ok, well we need to check your bag for any other books, sorry about this". Except more formal than that as they have a nice sheet full of questions they have to ask for this sort of thing (source, I had a knife in my bag at Gatwick once and went through something I imagine was quite similar - except much more my fault obviously).
      - ksk 10y ago
        If the trigger to being labeled as 'suspicious' is you carrying a weapon on a plane, then people are less likely to find it unreasonable. If the trigger is the simple act of reading a book, then, no it is not reasonable and should never be. At the _very_ least the airline should issue a full apology and reconsider their shoddy pseudo-security training.
      - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        Sure, a knife is very similar to a book about art. Entirely reasonable to be treated in the same way
        PJDK 10y ago
        I wasn't particularly clear - I intended to say that is why I have some knowledge of what it is like to be interviewed by the police at a British airport. In my case I was dumb, in this case the flight attendant was dumb. In both cases we were on our way within 15 minutes (and with me a stern warning to not do that again).
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - franciscop 10y ago
    So you cannot travel from Turkey to UK without raising terrorism concerns? I am not sure we live in the same reality anymore. The problem is not how long she was held, but the reasons for her being held which just sound an misinformed racism.
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      No, but how about this: if travel between Syria and the UK you may raise terrorism concerns. So if you are travelling from (or to) Turkey, while carrying things may indicate you had been in (or going to) Syria, then why not ask?
      - radiorental 10y ago
        Because that's just daft. The vast majority of stuff I read is about places/things that I want to learn more about. Or, let me put another angle on it... If I wanted to sneak into a country from another country I shouldn't be sneaking in from. How would I go about not advertising that fact? The assumption that reading a book about Syria means you want to bomb London is so ludicrous I can't believe it's even up for debate.
        WillPostForFood 10y ago
        The people trying to get to Syria to join ISIS aren't spymasters, they are often kids, often mentally unstable, often uneducated. So yes, they might sit on a plane reading a guide to bomb making or how about the hottest resorts Aleppo. > The assumption that reading a book about Syria means you want to bomb London is so ludicrous I can't believe it's even up for debate. Of course, that's why no one made that claim. That kind of strawman argument isn't helpful if you want to actually discuss this. The New York Times had a great article on ISIS yesterday. There is a pathway terrorists are taking from Europe, through Turkey, to Syria, for training, and then back through Turkey, to their home country. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/world/middleeast/isis-german-recruit-interview.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/world/middleeast/isis-germ...
  - radiorental 10y ago
    I'm more concerned about people with your world view and the effect you can have on my freedoms than any perceived threat you picked up watching Fox/Sky News.
    - jkot 10y ago
      Maybe you should put all persons with wrong world view into some sort of camp, so they would not threaten your freedoms.
      - radiorental 10y ago
        I was just worried about people demonstrating a degree of xenophobia and how that's only going to compound the various challenges we face today. However, now I'm actually concerned about you. What are you doing on HN? Your counterpoint follows no logic I can ascertain.
        jkot 10y ago
        Who is talking about xenophobia? She basically hijacked legitimate issue (people held for several hours at airport) to propagate a book and herself. And when I present valid arguments, you just start personal attack. No I do not watch Fox/Sky, it does not even broadcast in here. And maybe I should give you ring next time I travel to US, because I think your immigration service is profiling non-americans for extra questioning.
- titanomachy 10y ago
  Every time a British citizen shows up in Syria fighting for ISIS, the government is criticized heavily for letting someone slip through. It makes the whole country look bad and the people demand that something be done about it. Any protocol which effectively stops people from joining ISIS will have some false positives, and if the consequence of being a false positive is a fifteen-minute interview, then I'm not sure I can find it in myself to be outraged. If that's an extreme conservative view then stick a toupee on me and call me Trump, I guess. :P
  - radiorental 10y ago
    > It makes the whole country look bad I think you're missing the underlying goal of terrorism. This makes the country look bad. Keep Calm, Carry On when bombs are falling makes the country look strong. There are far more effective methods to stop extremists. This is just looks stupid.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tmalsburg2 10y ago
You have no idea how many people are traveling from Europe to the general direction of Syria or back. A vanishingly small percentage of these people pose a security threat. Harassing people who read books about Syria is not going to make anyone safer.
- golergka 10y ago
  > Harassing Honest question: how is stopping someone for 15 minute of polite questioning is "harassing"?
  - tmalsburg2 10y ago
    It doesn't matter for how long you are being stopped. Being suspected to be a terrorist just because you look vaguely Muslim (that was probably the other factor apart from the book) can be a shocking and live-changing experience. It tells you that you are not seen as a part of mainstream society in your home country (the woman is British). Given the HN demographics you are probably a white American male, so you probably never got into this situation and never will.
    - golergka 10y ago
      So, you call it "harassment" not because of nature of the action, but because of the reason behind the action?
    - jkot 10y ago
      I am from Prague, worked in Ireland for many years. I was detained on UK airports for about 20 hours in total.
      - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        Just because you've decided to accept your treatment, doesn't make it right.
  - mikeash 10y ago

by jkot 10y ago

radiorental 10y ago

Could you clarify the point you're trying to make. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or voting for Trump. Poe's Law in effect.

jkot 10y ago
She was traveling Turkey > UK, that is usual path someone from Syria would take. That on its own is enough to raise questions. For some examples read related content under article. She was 'held' (original title was 'detained') for 15 minutes. That is not even rounding error at UK international airports. And half of the article is an ad for the book.
- tgb 10y ago
  Your quote says it was the opposite flight when she was detained.
- ksk 10y ago
  > that is usual path someone from Syria would take. That on its own is enough to raise questions. What nonsense. If dodgy individuals constantly feature on this route why does the flight even exist then? Just for "safe" non-brown non-black people? >She was 'held' (original title was 'detained') for 15 minutes. "Police officers questioned Shaheen for 15 minutes under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act, " Yeah, Under the terrorism act... For reading a book about art.
  - PJDK 10y ago
    No she was questioned for being reported as suspicious by a flight attendant. Given it was only for 15 minutes I imagine pretty quickly it became "oh, it's a book about art, bloody flight attendants are idiots. Ok, well we need to check your bag for any other books, sorry about this". Except more formal than that as they have a nice sheet full of questions they have to ask for this sort of thing (source, I had a knife in my bag at Gatwick once and went through something I imagine was quite similar - except much more my fault obviously).
    - ksk 10y ago
      If the trigger to being labeled as 'suspicious' is you carrying a weapon on a plane, then people are less likely to find it unreasonable. If the trigger is the simple act of reading a book, then, no it is not reasonable and should never be. At the _very_ least the airline should issue a full apology and reconsider their shoddy pseudo-security training.
    - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
      Sure, a knife is very similar to a book about art. Entirely reasonable to be treated in the same way
      - PJDK 10y ago
        I wasn't particularly clear - I intended to say that is why I have some knowledge of what it is like to be interviewed by the police at a British airport. In my case I was dumb, in this case the flight attendant was dumb. In both cases we were on our way within 15 minutes (and with me a stern warning to not do that again).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- franciscop 10y ago
  So you cannot travel from Turkey to UK without raising terrorism concerns? I am not sure we live in the same reality anymore. The problem is not how long she was held, but the reasons for her being held which just sound an misinformed racism.
  - WillPostForFood 10y ago
    No, but how about this: if travel between Syria and the UK you may raise terrorism concerns. So if you are travelling from (or to) Turkey, while carrying things may indicate you had been in (or going to) Syria, then why not ask?
    - radiorental 10y ago
      Because that's just daft. The vast majority of stuff I read is about places/things that I want to learn more about. Or, let me put another angle on it... If I wanted to sneak into a country from another country I shouldn't be sneaking in from. How would I go about not advertising that fact? The assumption that reading a book about Syria means you want to bomb London is so ludicrous I can't believe it's even up for debate.
      - WillPostForFood 10y ago
        The people trying to get to Syria to join ISIS aren't spymasters, they are often kids, often mentally unstable, often uneducated. So yes, they might sit on a plane reading a guide to bomb making or how about the hottest resorts Aleppo. > The assumption that reading a book about Syria means you want to bomb London is so ludicrous I can't believe it's even up for debate. Of course, that's why no one made that claim. That kind of strawman argument isn't helpful if you want to actually discuss this. The New York Times had a great article on ISIS yesterday. There is a pathway terrorists are taking from Europe, through Turkey, to Syria, for training, and then back through Turkey, to their home country. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/world/middleeast/isis-german-recruit-interview.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/world/middleeast/isis-germ...
- radiorental 10y ago
  I'm more concerned about people with your world view and the effect you can have on my freedoms than any perceived threat you picked up watching Fox/Sky News.
  - jkot 10y ago
    Maybe you should put all persons with wrong world view into some sort of camp, so they would not threaten your freedoms.
    - radiorental 10y ago
      I was just worried about people demonstrating a degree of xenophobia and how that's only going to compound the various challenges we face today. However, now I'm actually concerned about you. What are you doing on HN? Your counterpoint follows no logic I can ascertain.
      - jkot 10y ago
        Who is talking about xenophobia? She basically hijacked legitimate issue (people held for several hours at airport) to propagate a book and herself. And when I present valid arguments, you just start personal attack. No I do not watch Fox/Sky, it does not even broadcast in here. And maybe I should give you ring next time I travel to US, because I think your immigration service is profiling non-americans for extra questioning.
titanomachy 10y ago
Every time a British citizen shows up in Syria fighting for ISIS, the government is criticized heavily for letting someone slip through. It makes the whole country look bad and the people demand that something be done about it. Any protocol which effectively stops people from joining ISIS will have some false positives, and if the consequence of being a false positive is a fifteen-minute interview, then I'm not sure I can find it in myself to be outraged. If that's an extreme conservative view then stick a toupee on me and call me Trump, I guess. :P
- radiorental 10y ago
  > It makes the whole country look bad I think you're missing the underlying goal of terrorism. This makes the country look bad. Keep Calm, Carry On when bombs are falling makes the country look strong. There are far more effective methods to stop extremists. This is just looks stupid.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tmalsburg2 10y ago

You have no idea how many people are traveling from Europe to the general direction of Syria or back. A vanishingly small percentage of these people pose a security threat. Harassing people who read books about Syria is not going to make anyone safer.

golergka 10y ago
> Harassing Honest question: how is stopping someone for 15 minute of polite questioning is "harassing"?
- tmalsburg2 10y ago
  It doesn't matter for how long you are being stopped. Being suspected to be a terrorist just because you look vaguely Muslim (that was probably the other factor apart from the book) can be a shocking and live-changing experience. It tells you that you are not seen as a part of mainstream society in your home country (the woman is British). Given the HN demographics you are probably a white American male, so you probably never got into this situation and never will.
  - golergka 10y ago
    So, you call it "harassment" not because of nature of the action, but because of the reason behind the action?
  - jkot 10y ago
    I am from Prague, worked in Ireland for many years. I was detained on UK airports for about 20 hours in total.
    - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
      Just because you've decided to accept your treatment, doesn't make it right.
- mikeash 10y ago