3 ms·

Have you ever done nothing but code for weeks on end? 7am-1am usually, though 8am-2am and 9am-3am are popular. You get bathroom breaks, some small parts of your

Have you ever done nothing but code for weeks on end? 7am-1am usually, though 8am-2am and 9am-3am are popular. You get bathroom breaks, some small parts of your commute when you can't physically be coding or communicating, and maybe some spare moments around meals (generally you work through them though), so you're looking at 16-17 hour days overall. That puts you at 80 hours before you've hit the weekend, so 100 overall is not unreasonable. At least in my experience, no amount of pride or grit can prevent you from crumbling if you do this for more than a few weeks. The physical aspects are somewhat noticeable but can be mitigated with a little exercise, good posture, alternating work positions, and so on. I found the real price is paid mentally. You lose control of your emotions and work becomes the center of your world to an unhealthy degree. A frustration that impedes your work becomes a mental disaster. You lose a sense of who you are, drowned in the work. You start to take pride in being this code machine. I sleep very little as it is, and can only imagine the havoc this would wreak one somebody who needs their 6-8 hours. When you surface, the return to reality can be jarring and embarrassing. It happens when the project fails, or is hugely delayed for causes outside of your control, or the business is acquired, or what have you: The reality sets in that you were burning the candle at both ends and getting upset for absolutely no reason. You realize that your pride, your perceived grit, not only was futile with regard to the project, but was really a protective mechanism. Vanity carried the day. That is just plain crushing for your self-esteem, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

latch 10y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845832
- superswordfish 10y ago
  First of all, the vast majority of us are not John Carmack. Second, his comment discusses the merits of working short versus long hours. That's a world apart from spending every waking hour on work, which is what Mayer advocates here (especially with the mention of all-nighters). Either way, I would've appreciated if you wrote your own reply.
  - latch 10y ago
    Outliers exist, and you can build a team of them (it's been done, it will be done). The "trick" is to get people to "work" on something they love doing and are proud of. Also, and Carmack nails it, people are different. You might think it's unhealthy, or unnatural, but some people are obsessive, perfectionist, focused or just really passionate about something. Also, some people are just better organized. Again, Carmack's right, you probably can't be at your peak for extended periods of time, but there's plenty of things you can get done that don't require your peak. When this issue is raised from concern of people being taken advantage of, fine, I agree. But just because some people can't do it, doesn't mean no one can (just look at the extreme range of physical and creative abilities that people have). And, like all other life style choices, what's the point of judging other people?
    - superswordfish 10y ago
      No, I still disagree with you. Carmack is the outlier of the outlier and not a useful example. To be able to get and keep a team of those people would be the opportunity of a lifetime. Keep in mind that I'm the sort of person you are indicating already. I sleep little and don't care much about work/life balance. When I've worked on teams that are burning the candle at both ends, I am able to hold out longer than others and usually end up carrying things over the finish line. That's the point of my comment: Even for those who ought to thrive, things start to break down, and no amount of energy or toughness changes that. We are human. I want to warn/remind other engineers that these practices are unsustainable. Hell, I want to remind myself of that after repeating this work to the bone/burnout cycle so many times.

latch 10y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10845832

superswordfish 10y ago
First of all, the vast majority of us are not John Carmack. Second, his comment discusses the merits of working short versus long hours. That's a world apart from spending every waking hour on work, which is what Mayer advocates here (especially with the mention of all-nighters). Either way, I would've appreciated if you wrote your own reply.
- latch 10y ago
  Outliers exist, and you can build a team of them (it's been done, it will be done). The "trick" is to get people to "work" on something they love doing and are proud of. Also, and Carmack nails it, people are different. You might think it's unhealthy, or unnatural, but some people are obsessive, perfectionist, focused or just really passionate about something. Also, some people are just better organized. Again, Carmack's right, you probably can't be at your peak for extended periods of time, but there's plenty of things you can get done that don't require your peak. When this issue is raised from concern of people being taken advantage of, fine, I agree. But just because some people can't do it, doesn't mean no one can (just look at the extreme range of physical and creative abilities that people have). And, like all other life style choices, what's the point of judging other people?
  - superswordfish 10y ago
    No, I still disagree with you. Carmack is the outlier of the outlier and not a useful example. To be able to get and keep a team of those people would be the opportunity of a lifetime. Keep in mind that I'm the sort of person you are indicating already. I sleep little and don't care much about work/life balance. When I've worked on teams that are burning the candle at both ends, I am able to hold out longer than others and usually end up carrying things over the finish line. That's the point of my comment: Even for those who ought to thrive, things start to break down, and no amount of energy or toughness changes that. We are human. I want to warn/remind other engineers that these practices are unsustainable. Hell, I want to remind myself of that after repeating this work to the bone/burnout cycle so many times.