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As someone who actually goes to top school, I cannot even fathom how someone would think that being captain of a track team and learning calligraphy would be mo

As someone who actually goes to top school, I cannot even fathom how someone would think that being captain of a track team and learning calligraphy would be more impressive than lobby U.N. delegates. Track captains are a dime a dozen and there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about taking calligraphy. I don't even know why you would put that on your resume unless you were going to write an essay about it. Working with the UN as a high schooler is something that grabs the attention of an admissions officer. I'm sure his essay about the experience sealed the deal.

r00k 17y ago
I think your reply would have been a lot more persuasive without "As someone who actually goes to a top school..." It sounds like bragging. And worse: it doesn't do anything for your argument. (And for the record, I agree with you.)
- jacobolus 17y ago
  It gives him somewhat more direct insight, having experience with what such students are like. He clearly meant it in that light. What would he possibly get from bragging? (People who go to top schools are a dime a dozen, after all. ;-)
petercooper 17y ago
there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about taking calligraphy. I don't even know why you would put that on your resume unless you were going to write an essay about it. Steve Jobs seems to think it was a big deal: http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+calligraphy http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+calligraphy
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
sharms 17y ago
In a world of 7 billion people, you will find that just about everyone is a dime a dozen. To use your own words, the following is equally as true: there is nothing "impressive" about signing up to lobby the U.N. as an unpaid intern. Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed.
- wakeupthedawn 17y ago
  So you think the best way to judge whether an applicant might be a good addition to a college is whether he makes money in the free market? If he had been a Paid intern, that would make his experience more valuable for the college? Does someone who works at McDonald's for minimum wage have more to offer a college community than someone who has a somewhat unique volunteer experience? And nobody's trying to impress you. These kids are trying to impress college admissions, who are in turn trying to build interesting and diverse student bodies.
- nostrademons 17y ago
  "Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed." I think posts like this actually reinforce the article's meta-point, which is that people are impressed by accomplishments that fit with the person's values where it's not obvious how to accomplish them. You (and many other readers of this site) value success in business. Even if you're currently making real money, you probably weren't at age 17, and probably didn't have much of a clue how to at age 17, and so a 17-year-old making real money is impressive. The football player here values the skills he learned from football, and knows how difficult it was to balance them with scholastic achievement, and so he's impressed by the guy who captained the football team and yet still managed to take calligraphy and get good grades. The college admission's officer is tasked with assembling a unique, diverse, interesting class. She obviously would not have taken the job if she didn't value uniqueness. And so when somebody shows up that doesn't fit the profile that she sees all day, and has accomplished something a little out of the ordinary, she's impressed. Don't mistake the specific examples for the general principle. You may not share the same value system as a college admission's officer. Hell, you may not even value college. But you can still use this to impress people who have things that you want.
alexgartrell 17y ago
If "David" attended a school that was serious about athletics, getting good grades with the huge commitment of track is so much more impressive than some political BS that "Steve" seemed to get lucky with. As a data point, I got mediocre grades (barely top 10% in my high school class at a pretty run-of-the-mill high school) while playing football (it's a year round commitment) and for some reason Carnegie Mellon chose to let me in [0]. When push came to shove I managed to put myself ahead instead of behind because I was willing to work a little bit harder than I needed to, and I learned how to do that with every miserable, awful football practice I ever went to. In all likelihood, "Steve" isn't as mentally tough as "David", and I think (assuming a similar grade and test score standing) it'd be foolish to take Steve over David. [0] In fairness, I had also programmed a lot and I think I was able to convey a passion for it, but I think that's pretty standard for a lot of people who didn't make it in.
- jacobolus 17y ago
  > In all likelihood, "Steve" isn't as mentally tough as "David" How can you possibly make this kind of speculative judgment on the basis of no further information? “All likelihood”? Give me a break. I know football players who are mentally tough. I also know football players who are lazy dipshit assholes. The kids in the band, or the theater, or the debate team, or the math club, are no less “mentally tough” than the kids on the football team (unless by “mentally tough” you really mean “physically bulky and imposing” in which case you’re absolutely right).
  - alexgartrell 17y ago
    On one hand I have evidence that "David" can force himself to train (which, for track athletes, involves running miles in all kinds of terrible weather, often until they throw up). Alternatively, "Steve" sent some emails, did some networking, and ended up in a couple sweet positions. What I meant by "All likelihood" is that, given the information provided, I would wager more on David's mental toughness than on Steve. What is unfair about me making that judgement based on the evidence provided?
    - deleted 17y ago
naturalethic 17y ago
People who praise globalist government agendas area dime a dozen.

r00k 17y ago

I think your reply would have been a lot more persuasive without "As someone who actually goes to a top school..." It sounds like bragging. And worse: it doesn't do anything for your argument. (And for the record, I agree with you.)

jacobolus 17y ago
It gives him somewhat more direct insight, having experience with what such students are like. He clearly meant it in that light. What would he possibly get from bragging? (People who go to top schools are a dime a dozen, after all. ;-)

petercooper 17y ago

there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about taking calligraphy. I don't even know why you would put that on your resume unless you were going to write an essay about it. Steve Jobs seems to think it was a big deal: http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+calligraphy http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+calligraphy

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

sharms 17y ago

In a world of 7 billion people, you will find that just about everyone is a dime a dozen. To use your own words, the following is equally as true: there is nothing "impressive" about signing up to lobby the U.N. as an unpaid intern. Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed.

wakeupthedawn 17y ago
So you think the best way to judge whether an applicant might be a good addition to a college is whether he makes money in the free market? If he had been a Paid intern, that would make his experience more valuable for the college? Does someone who works at McDonald's for minimum wage have more to offer a college community than someone who has a somewhat unique volunteer experience? And nobody's trying to impress you. These kids are trying to impress college admissions, who are in turn trying to build interesting and diverse student bodies.
nostrademons 17y ago
"Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed." I think posts like this actually reinforce the article's meta-point, which is that people are impressed by accomplishments that fit with the person's values where it's not obvious how to accomplish them. You (and many other readers of this site) value success in business. Even if you're currently making real money, you probably weren't at age 17, and probably didn't have much of a clue how to at age 17, and so a 17-year-old making real money is impressive. The football player here values the skills he learned from football, and knows how difficult it was to balance them with scholastic achievement, and so he's impressed by the guy who captained the football team and yet still managed to take calligraphy and get good grades. The college admission's officer is tasked with assembling a unique, diverse, interesting class. She obviously would not have taken the job if she didn't value uniqueness. And so when somebody shows up that doesn't fit the profile that she sees all day, and has accomplished something a little out of the ordinary, she's impressed. Don't mistake the specific examples for the general principle. You may not share the same value system as a college admission's officer. Hell, you may not even value college. But you can still use this to impress people who have things that you want.

alexgartrell 17y ago

If "David" attended a school that was serious about athletics, getting good grades with the huge commitment of track is so much more impressive than some political BS that "Steve" seemed to get lucky with. As a data point, I got mediocre grades (barely top 10% in my high school class at a pretty run-of-the-mill high school) while playing football (it's a year round commitment) and for some reason Carnegie Mellon chose to let me in [0]. When push came to shove I managed to put myself ahead instead of behind because I was willing to work a little bit harder than I needed to, and I learned how to do that with every miserable, awful football practice I ever went to. In all likelihood, "Steve" isn't as mentally tough as "David", and I think (assuming a similar grade and test score standing) it'd be foolish to take Steve over David. [0] In fairness, I had also programmed a lot and I think I was able to convey a passion for it, but I think that's pretty standard for a lot of people who didn't make it in.

jacobolus 17y ago
> In all likelihood, "Steve" isn't as mentally tough as "David" How can you possibly make this kind of speculative judgment on the basis of no further information? “All likelihood”? Give me a break. I know football players who are mentally tough. I also know football players who are lazy dipshit assholes. The kids in the band, or the theater, or the debate team, or the math club, are no less “mentally tough” than the kids on the football team (unless by “mentally tough” you really mean “physically bulky and imposing” in which case you’re absolutely right).
- alexgartrell 17y ago
  On one hand I have evidence that "David" can force himself to train (which, for track athletes, involves running miles in all kinds of terrible weather, often until they throw up). Alternatively, "Steve" sent some emails, did some networking, and ended up in a couple sweet positions. What I meant by "All likelihood" is that, given the information provided, I would wager more on David's mental toughness than on Steve. What is unfair about me making that judgement based on the evidence provided?
  - deleted 17y ago

naturalethic 17y ago

People who praise globalist government agendas area dime a dozen.