4 ms·

I would guess that they were born here, or came here as a very young child. You'd need to have fairly good mastery of English to correctly interpret those ques

by pcurve 10y ago

I would guess that they were born here, or came here as a very young child. You'd need to have fairly good mastery of English to correctly interpret those questions.

gohrt 10y ago
Maybe? The questions are translated into many languages, and many many non-Americans (especially well-educated non-Americans) learn technically capable English.
Swizec 10y ago
I came here at 26. My English tests at native levels or above (it's been ~10 years since I took the test). Most people assume I'm a native speaker until they hear my accent and even that is going away. English really isn't that hard to learn.
- pcurve 10y ago
  That's very impressive. Obviously everyone will experience different learning curve, but you are an exceptional individual and not a norm.
  - Swizec 10y ago
    I think it has more to do with the fact that most of the develop world starts learning English before they're 10 years old. And a lot of the music/movies/internat is in English as well.
    - thinkpad20 10y ago
      I'm sure it also has to do with what country you were raised in, your exposure to media etc, your educational and support system, your level of motivation and dedication, and your aptitude. I taught English for three years in a foreign country to many smart people who struggled to learn the language. Although English is apparently not difficult for you, the claim that "English really isn't that hard" is clearly untrue for a great many learners. (Also there are a few minor errors in the above post ;))
      - Swizec 10y ago
        As with anything, it depends. It's never seemed hard to me and I'm sure we can all agree that it's among the easier languages for people to learn. At least people coming from indoeuropean languages. As for errors, I've noticed that spending time in the US and using colloquial English a lot, has wreaked havoc on my English grammar. Or maybe it's the distance from schooling that did it.
- geomark 10y ago
  I'm impressed when someone says English is not hard to learn. I'm a native English speaker now living in an Asian country where I have learned the language. When I view English from my new perspective it seems so much more difficult. Even just trying to explain to non-native speakers inconsistent pronunciations it seems ridiculous (how about these 4 words: rough, plough, though, through). I can't even get started on verb conjugations and all the irregularities
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    English is tough, though through thorough thought it can be mastered.
    - 77pt77 10y ago
      What a concise way to get your point across.
- gone35 10y ago
  Idiomatic English is hard. From your HN profile[0]: "At least 5000 people bought my books..." Don't ask me why, but to me it should read instead: "at least 5000 people have bought my books," or even: "over 5000 people have bought my books." [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Swizec https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Swizec
  - Alphasite_ 10y ago
    You example makes the point that formal English hard to write, not hard to read.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dasfasf 10y ago
    Just "bought" implies that the sale of the books is compassed in the past. It sounds strange because no explicit compass is mentioned and the reader suspects they are still for sale. I don't see anything wrong with "at least" though. Note that "over" changes the meaning (>= vs. >) and at least some prescriptivists obelize using "over" like that (I believe the AP Stylebook used to).
    - gone35 10y ago
      [...]and at least some prescriptivists obelize using "over" like that (I believe the AP Stylebook used to). Indeed they did, until very recently[0]. I had no idea. [0] http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/more-than-vs-over-a-big-change-at-the-associated-press http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/more-than...
  - Swizec 10y ago
    But in idiomatic spoken English, at least in the US, people omit that have. I agree that it's there for more formal or more British English. Also, what you're describing goes beyond native level English and reaches the level of professional writer/teacher/linguist/editor/etc level English. I would expect many HN readers to have English proficiency beyond native level.
fma 10y ago
You must not know a lot of Chinese born Americans. English is taught in China starting at elementary school. Their literacy skills are higher than verbal, thus reading word problems would not be difficult.
umanwizard 10y ago
That's totally false. Plenty of Chinese and Indian researchers are reading math papers and books in English, which requires the same level of English skills. I learned a foreign language to fluency at age 17, and math is one of the easiest things to read in the second language because the grammar is never very creative and the vocabulary is much more restricted than a novel or even a typical newspaper. (Tangentially, a lot of people born in raised in India speak English at near-native levels. Especially the well-educated classes that would be likely to move to the US and participate in something like this.)
fengwick3 10y ago
I beg to differ. Math olympiad problems are typically short and concise, and mathematical phrasing, even when expressed in English, typically has clear bijections to equivalent terms in other languages.

by pcurve 10y ago

I would guess that they were born here, or came here as a very young child. You'd need to have fairly good mastery of English to correctly interpret those questions.

gohrt 10y ago

Maybe? The questions are translated into many languages, and many many non-Americans (especially well-educated non-Americans) learn technically capable English.

Swizec 10y ago

I came here at 26. My English tests at native levels or above (it's been ~10 years since I took the test). Most people assume I'm a native speaker until they hear my accent and even that is going away. English really isn't that hard to learn.

pcurve 10y ago
That's very impressive. Obviously everyone will experience different learning curve, but you are an exceptional individual and not a norm.
- Swizec 10y ago
  I think it has more to do with the fact that most of the develop world starts learning English before they're 10 years old. And a lot of the music/movies/internat is in English as well.
  - thinkpad20 10y ago
    I'm sure it also has to do with what country you were raised in, your exposure to media etc, your educational and support system, your level of motivation and dedication, and your aptitude. I taught English for three years in a foreign country to many smart people who struggled to learn the language. Although English is apparently not difficult for you, the claim that "English really isn't that hard" is clearly untrue for a great many learners. (Also there are a few minor errors in the above post ;))
    - Swizec 10y ago
      As with anything, it depends. It's never seemed hard to me and I'm sure we can all agree that it's among the easier languages for people to learn. At least people coming from indoeuropean languages. As for errors, I've noticed that spending time in the US and using colloquial English a lot, has wreaked havoc on my English grammar. Or maybe it's the distance from schooling that did it.
geomark 10y ago
I'm impressed when someone says English is not hard to learn. I'm a native English speaker now living in an Asian country where I have learned the language. When I view English from my new perspective it seems so much more difficult. Even just trying to explain to non-native speakers inconsistent pronunciations it seems ridiculous (how about these 4 words: rough, plough, though, through). I can't even get started on verb conjugations and all the irregularities
- WildUtah 10y ago
  English is tough, though through thorough thought it can be mastered.
  - 77pt77 10y ago
    What a concise way to get your point across.
gone35 10y ago
Idiomatic English is hard. From your HN profile[0]: "At least 5000 people bought my books..." Don't ask me why, but to me it should read instead: "at least 5000 people have bought my books," or even: "over 5000 people have bought my books." [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Swizec https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Swizec
- Alphasite_ 10y ago
  You example makes the point that formal English hard to write, not hard to read.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dasfasf 10y ago
  Just "bought" implies that the sale of the books is compassed in the past. It sounds strange because no explicit compass is mentioned and the reader suspects they are still for sale. I don't see anything wrong with "at least" though. Note that "over" changes the meaning (>= vs. >) and at least some prescriptivists obelize using "over" like that (I believe the AP Stylebook used to).
  - gone35 10y ago
    [...]and at least some prescriptivists obelize using "over" like that (I believe the AP Stylebook used to). Indeed they did, until very recently[0]. I had no idea. [0] http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/more-than-vs-over-a-big-change-at-the-associated-press http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/more-than...
- Swizec 10y ago
  But in idiomatic spoken English, at least in the US, people omit that have. I agree that it's there for more formal or more British English. Also, what you're describing goes beyond native level English and reaches the level of professional writer/teacher/linguist/editor/etc level English. I would expect many HN readers to have English proficiency beyond native level.

fma 10y ago

You must not know a lot of Chinese born Americans. English is taught in China starting at elementary school. Their literacy skills are higher than verbal, thus reading word problems would not be difficult.

umanwizard 10y ago

That's totally false. Plenty of Chinese and Indian researchers are reading math papers and books in English, which requires the same level of English skills. I learned a foreign language to fluency at age 17, and math is one of the easiest things to read in the second language because the grammar is never very creative and the vocabulary is much more restricted than a novel or even a typical newspaper. (Tangentially, a lot of people born in raised in India speak English at near-native levels. Especially the well-educated classes that would be likely to move to the US and participate in something like this.)

fengwick3 10y ago

I beg to differ. Math olympiad problems are typically short and concise, and mathematical phrasing, even when expressed in English, typically has clear bijections to equivalent terms in other languages.