4 ms·

I was about to wonder aloud why there can't be more private, for-profit mental health facilities instead of private prisons, as huge swathes of the incarcerated

I was about to wonder aloud why there can't be more private, for-profit mental health facilities instead of private prisons, as huge swathes of the incarcerated population are very mentally unwell and probably do need to be in custody but would likely benefit tremendously from a less oppressive setting. Surely there could be some profit to be extracted by privatization there. Then I realized it's because they couldn't make mental health patients do slave labor, and why leave all that money on the table when the facilities they'd be building are basically the same, as are the people they'll be housing, once they and their political allies have successfully choked out the public mental health system. Ah the glory of the free market.

newman314 10y ago
Health should not be for-profit. Such a system puts the needy at a tremendous disadvantage. Needing a heart transplant etc. does not put one in a situation to shop around. Blind worship of a free market can lead to some pretty obscene outcomes.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >Health should not be for-profit. Yeah, it should be public like Canada, where I've been on a waiting list for 2 years just to get a family doctor... I think there's some middle ground there. The market does solve certain problems.
  - brandon272 10y ago
    I am a Canadian and don't have a family doctor and am unclear on the benefits of having one. When I had one years ago I didn't feel like I was getting any extra special attention beyond what I get now by walking into a walk-in clinic and seeing any random doctor. Perhaps the benefits are clearer if you have ongoing medical issues? Or perhaps my old family doctor wasn't doing things a family doctor is supposed to do in terms of ongoing care?
    - nameless912 10y ago
      I'm an American with kickass insurance who doesn't have a "family doctor". I go to a local practice that has 5 or so doctors and a couple of CNP's. I don't always see the same person, but I see someone within 2 or 3 days for routine stuff and same day for urgent stuff. I think that the moderate trade off between "personalization" and availability is totally worth it, especially since it saves me money (my insurance is apparently billed less for an appointment at a group practice, which means eventually my premiums are lower).
      - ehnto 10y ago
        For another data point, I live in Australia and can see a doctor, same day or night, for around 20 USD. It is very convenient and I am glad that part of the system runs well enough. There can be waiting lists for public surgeons however, and private health insurance can help solve that to an extent. I think we have a good balance here but I am not familiar enough with the nuances of health care to know.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    I live in Norway and am covered by the state insurance. I lived my first 30+ years in the states. I have a family doctor that I can change twice a year: Some doctors are busy and can't get you in for minor stuff the same day, but I had that in the states as well. Folks here can go to a private doctor if they choose, and they pay a bit more - but that isn't common. The wait times are sometimes an issue that needs improvement, but overall the quality of care one has access to is greatly improved. I'll no longer have to be faced with putting off surgery because I can't afford the co-payment, nor afraid of being injured and not affording physical therapy. And this is with insurance. Here there are ways to get things quicker if the situation is urgent, but there it really was dependent on money. The yearly payments top out at an amount that is less than the deductible I had in the states... and my insurance wasn't bad there. I'll take the universal care and wait times any day.
barry-cotter 10y ago
There are private mental hospitals. They're the ones that are merely pretty bad places to be, but that look nice enough and seem like they'd be tolerable for a short length of time. Most public mental hospitals are terrible places; if I was going to spend a significant portion of my life in such places and knew it that'd be enough to make me depressed all by itself. There are lots of people in prison who would be better off in mental hospitals but you need to be committed to go to a mental hospital. They're not nice places. Few people are going to voluntarily commit themselves, and that's before considering that (a) They check if you're doing something suicidal every 15 minutes so you get neither sleep nor privacy (b) Lots of psychiatric drugs are hideous. The side effect profiles of anti-psychotics are such that being schizophrenic can look fine. As to the patients/inmates and facilities you're wrong. A mental hospital looks like a hospital, not a prison, inside and out. They'll have better security than a normal hospital but the comparison is absurd if you've visited both, or even just seen both on tv. And the inmates at a penal institution are enormously more violent that the patients at mental hospitals.
- tcj_phx 10y ago
  > (b) Lots of psychiatric drugs are hideous. The side effect profiles of anti-psychotics are such that being schizophrenic can look fine. The ironic thing about "anti-psychotics" is that they worsen the conditions they supposedly treat. [1] [1] "Drug-induced supersensitivity psychosis revisited: characteristics of relapse in treatment-compliant patients" - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736929/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736929/
mhuffman 10y ago
Also a lot of voters seem to think that mental health issues are "your problem" but crime (getting caught with weed mostly, is a social problem that needs severe punishment, not treatment. People (especially tea-baggers, like Rick Scott) seem to like hurting others more then helping others, all things being equal. All things being unequal, they prefer to profit off of others!

newman314 10y ago

Health should not be for-profit. Such a system puts the needy at a tremendous disadvantage. Needing a heart transplant etc. does not put one in a situation to shop around. Blind worship of a free market can lead to some pretty obscene outcomes.

forgetsusername 10y ago
>Health should not be for-profit. Yeah, it should be public like Canada, where I've been on a waiting list for 2 years just to get a family doctor... I think there's some middle ground there. The market does solve certain problems.
- brandon272 10y ago
  I am a Canadian and don't have a family doctor and am unclear on the benefits of having one. When I had one years ago I didn't feel like I was getting any extra special attention beyond what I get now by walking into a walk-in clinic and seeing any random doctor. Perhaps the benefits are clearer if you have ongoing medical issues? Or perhaps my old family doctor wasn't doing things a family doctor is supposed to do in terms of ongoing care?
  - nameless912 10y ago
    I'm an American with kickass insurance who doesn't have a "family doctor". I go to a local practice that has 5 or so doctors and a couple of CNP's. I don't always see the same person, but I see someone within 2 or 3 days for routine stuff and same day for urgent stuff. I think that the moderate trade off between "personalization" and availability is totally worth it, especially since it saves me money (my insurance is apparently billed less for an appointment at a group practice, which means eventually my premiums are lower).
    - ehnto 10y ago
      For another data point, I live in Australia and can see a doctor, same day or night, for around 20 USD. It is very convenient and I am glad that part of the system runs well enough. There can be waiting lists for public surgeons however, and private health insurance can help solve that to an extent. I think we have a good balance here but I am not familiar enough with the nuances of health care to know.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I live in Norway and am covered by the state insurance. I lived my first 30+ years in the states. I have a family doctor that I can change twice a year: Some doctors are busy and can't get you in for minor stuff the same day, but I had that in the states as well. Folks here can go to a private doctor if they choose, and they pay a bit more - but that isn't common. The wait times are sometimes an issue that needs improvement, but overall the quality of care one has access to is greatly improved. I'll no longer have to be faced with putting off surgery because I can't afford the co-payment, nor afraid of being injured and not affording physical therapy. And this is with insurance. Here there are ways to get things quicker if the situation is urgent, but there it really was dependent on money. The yearly payments top out at an amount that is less than the deductible I had in the states... and my insurance wasn't bad there. I'll take the universal care and wait times any day.

barry-cotter 10y ago

There are private mental hospitals. They're the ones that are merely pretty bad places to be, but that look nice enough and seem like they'd be tolerable for a short length of time. Most public mental hospitals are terrible places; if I was going to spend a significant portion of my life in such places and knew it that'd be enough to make me depressed all by itself. There are lots of people in prison who would be better off in mental hospitals but you need to be committed to go to a mental hospital. They're not nice places. Few people are going to voluntarily commit themselves, and that's before considering that (a) They check if you're doing something suicidal every 15 minutes so you get neither sleep nor privacy (b) Lots of psychiatric drugs are hideous. The side effect profiles of anti-psychotics are such that being schizophrenic can look fine. As to the patients/inmates and facilities you're wrong. A mental hospital looks like a hospital, not a prison, inside and out. They'll have better security than a normal hospital but the comparison is absurd if you've visited both, or even just seen both on tv. And the inmates at a penal institution are enormously more violent that the patients at mental hospitals.

tcj_phx 10y ago
> (b) Lots of psychiatric drugs are hideous. The side effect profiles of anti-psychotics are such that being schizophrenic can look fine. The ironic thing about "anti-psychotics" is that they worsen the conditions they supposedly treat. [1] [1] "Drug-induced supersensitivity psychosis revisited: characteristics of relapse in treatment-compliant patients" - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736929/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736929/

mhuffman 10y ago

Also a lot of voters seem to think that mental health issues are "your problem" but crime (getting caught with weed mostly, is a social problem that needs severe punishment, not treatment. People (especially tea-baggers, like Rick Scott) seem to like hurting others more then helping others, all things being equal. All things being unequal, they prefer to profit off of others!