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>Perhaps they’ll also help with the Singaporean phenomenon of the seeming complete disappearance of taxis when it rains Are self-driving cars able to handle ra

>Perhaps they’ll also help with the Singaporean phenomenon of the seeming complete disappearance of taxis when it rains Are self-driving cars able to handle rainy conditions? I'm not in the industry but thought this was still an issue.

1_2__3 10y ago
The very fact that these manufacturers are being extraordinarily cagey about the circumstances under which their automation works and where it doesn't should tell everyone everything they need to know about how 'around the corner' this tech is. Think of it this way: non-optimal driving conditions is nowhere near the last hurdle for full autonomy. We're a long ways off.
jimjimjim 10y ago
This is a good question. The times I've seen it rain in Singapore or kuala Lumpur it's all or nothing. Fine weather -> 2 foot of water on the road -> Fine weather. I somehow don't think that scenario is in the test plan.
- clock_tower 10y ago
  At least it means that you can model RainIntensity as a bool... :)
up_and_up 10y ago
> Are self-driving cars able to handle rainy conditions? Seriously? I pretty sure all current vehicles need to go through extreme weather testing before they can be brought to market. For example my dad worked on a project testing Ford vehicles in extreme cold and snow conditions in northern MN.
- Qworg 10y ago
  Seriously. All self driving systems currently cannot cope with heavy rain or snow very well at all.
  - Animats 10y ago
    Ford has been making some progress on driving in snow.[1] Volvo is working on it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShi-xx6ze8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShi-xx6ze8
deelowe 10y ago
Weather is still an issue AFAIK. Perhaps a 3d visioning system can fix this at some point, but I don't think we're there yet as those solutions are too slow for RTC.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  The failsafe is to do what responsible drivers do when they can't cope with the conditions present: stop driving until conditions improve. The hard part is to reliably tell when the situation is no longer safe before something happens.
ptaipale 10y ago
Do taxis actually disappear - which seems counter-intuitive; where would they go, and why would the drivers suddenly not want to take rides when it rains? - or is it just that all free taxis are grabbed immediately when it rains, thus there are no free taxis? There we can answer that the seeming complete disappearance ox taxis when it rains will persist, because the ratio of customers per taxi shoots up when it starts to rain. (Where I live (north Europe), you practically don't flag taxis on the street but order it on the phone; when I was living in Beijing, I think the rain phenomenon was simply that all taxis were taken as the first drops came down.)
- beagle3 10y ago
  In NYC, I've heard that quite a few drivers have an agreement with the taxi owner that makes it barely-profitable for them to do more than a given number of rides - and with a rain, that number is achieved much earlier in the shift.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    That would explain it, but I've heard this complaint about taxis disappearing when it rains in very many cities - it would be odd if they all had similarly broken incentives for the drivers.
- gbog 10y ago
  It's worse than that: taxi drivers count the amount of money they made in a day and stop when it's enough. Then if it rains they make their day quickly and go home, while they will cruise much longer during low demand days. This is a classic example of short term view and the invisible hand going bad, found in Thinking fast and slow.
  - Someone 10y ago
    Citation needed. I would think most taxi drivers are smart enough to figure out that it is better to work a few more hours more on rainy days and sit in the park on sunny days than to work a few hours more on sunny days and sit in the park on rainy days.

1_2__3 10y ago

The very fact that these manufacturers are being extraordinarily cagey about the circumstances under which their automation works and where it doesn't should tell everyone everything they need to know about how 'around the corner' this tech is. Think of it this way: non-optimal driving conditions is nowhere near the last hurdle for full autonomy. We're a long ways off.

jimjimjim 10y ago

This is a good question. The times I've seen it rain in Singapore or kuala Lumpur it's all or nothing. Fine weather -> 2 foot of water on the road -> Fine weather. I somehow don't think that scenario is in the test plan.

clock_tower 10y ago
At least it means that you can model RainIntensity as a bool... :)

up_and_up 10y ago

> Are self-driving cars able to handle rainy conditions? Seriously? I pretty sure all current vehicles need to go through extreme weather testing before they can be brought to market. For example my dad worked on a project testing Ford vehicles in extreme cold and snow conditions in northern MN.

Qworg 10y ago
Seriously. All self driving systems currently cannot cope with heavy rain or snow very well at all.
- Animats 10y ago
  Ford has been making some progress on driving in snow.[1] Volvo is working on it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShi-xx6ze8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShi-xx6ze8

deelowe 10y ago

Weather is still an issue AFAIK. Perhaps a 3d visioning system can fix this at some point, but I don't think we're there yet as those solutions are too slow for RTC.

jacquesm 10y ago
The failsafe is to do what responsible drivers do when they can't cope with the conditions present: stop driving until conditions improve. The hard part is to reliably tell when the situation is no longer safe before something happens.

ptaipale 10y ago

Do taxis actually disappear - which seems counter-intuitive; where would they go, and why would the drivers suddenly not want to take rides when it rains? - or is it just that all free taxis are grabbed immediately when it rains, thus there are no free taxis? There we can answer that the seeming complete disappearance ox taxis when it rains will persist, because the ratio of customers per taxi shoots up when it starts to rain. (Where I live (north Europe), you practically don't flag taxis on the street but order it on the phone; when I was living in Beijing, I think the rain phenomenon was simply that all taxis were taken as the first drops came down.)

beagle3 10y ago
In NYC, I've heard that quite a few drivers have an agreement with the taxi owner that makes it barely-profitable for them to do more than a given number of rides - and with a rain, that number is achieved much earlier in the shift.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  That would explain it, but I've heard this complaint about taxis disappearing when it rains in very many cities - it would be odd if they all had similarly broken incentives for the drivers.
gbog 10y ago
It's worse than that: taxi drivers count the amount of money they made in a day and stop when it's enough. Then if it rains they make their day quickly and go home, while they will cruise much longer during low demand days. This is a classic example of short term view and the invisible hand going bad, found in Thinking fast and slow.
- Someone 10y ago
  Citation needed. I would think most taxi drivers are smart enough to figure out that it is better to work a few more hours more on rainy days and sit in the park on sunny days than to work a few hours more on sunny days and sit in the park on rainy days.