4 ms·

I don't get why people don't just use "queer", which is a true catch all for, well, queered identities. It doesn't seem to take off outside of academia, where i

by duaneb 10y ago

I don't get why people don't just use "queer", which is a true catch all for, well, queered identities. It doesn't seem to take off outside of academia, where it is rigorously used and defined.

sevenless 10y ago
Because: (1) it's an insult. Some of us grew up with 'Smear the Queer' played in school. I am not 'queer', I'm gay (or homosexual, if you want to be clinical). (2) There is nothing we have in common with these other groups to justify conflating them with gay people. Their causes aren't mine. Gay people aren't the other letters. I neither support lumping all these disparate groups together, nor had any say on it. Actually, why not just call us 'sex weirdos'? It's got the same meaning coming from straight people.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Actually, why not just call us 'sex weirdos'? It's got the same meaning coming from straight people. No, it doesn't (it has roughly the same meaning coming from heteronormative bigots, but that set is not coextensive with the set of straight people.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
    - duaneb 10y ago
      A) It's not always about sexuality. B) What does "imposing a category" even mean? Nobody is forcing you to identify as anything. Very few of my gay friends will self-identify as queer. I identify as queer. I find a lot of strength from the fact that I don't need to neatly fit onto the kinsey scale, and I hope that you can remember the discomfort of "Smear the Queer" to reach out to all the people and interests who were neglected in the gay marriage campaign. If you are interested in learning more (I suspect from your confrontational attitude you are not), I highly recommend "Against Equality: Queer Critiques of Gay Marriage".
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        duaneb 10y ago
        > That's hilarious. Leaving the (almost entirely upper-middle-class) ivory tower of po-mo navel-gazing and self-righteousness, getting married actually makes a very significant difference to some of us in the real world. Hence my recommendation; it's not anti-marriage in the sense of commitment or benefits. And I don't think marriage is a fundamental right; even defining it satisfactorily casually (let alone legally) to married people is impossible. The concrete rights that matter are legal benefits, and those still exclude poly people and people wishing to grant rights to relative or non-humans. Gay marriage only included gay people. It is inherently a bigoted institution while it retains any emphasis on heteronormativity (now extended to gay people, who are honorarily heteronormative under the law) or religion (i.e. all the opposition to gay marriage).
- duaneb 10y ago
  I can respect this. On a personal level, I think it's a positive movement. Self-identifying as queer does take some of the power of the pejorative away; these days I hear the term exclusively used as self-identification or for shared interests in the non-heteronormative community. While you don't have to take a part in those communities, they do explicitly have your interest as gay at heart. Meanwhile, bigots and employers do not distinguish between non-cis subgroups, so the shared front DOES make sense in approaching CERTAIN problems. Others, like the ability for gay men to donate blood, are not shared and do not make sense as primarily "queer" causes. > Actually, why not just call us 'sex weirdos'? It's got the same meaning coming from straight people. What other synonym would you recommend for "non-heteronormative"?
dragonwriter 10y ago
> I don't get why people don't just use "queer", which is a true catch all for, well, queered identities. Some people do identify as "queer" (its the Q in LGBTQ...) OTOH, lots of people that identify as LGBT, etc., don't, for a variety of reasons -- including it being a catch-all, and also, IIRC, because to some people the term implies acceptance of a heteronormative framework.
- duaneb 10y ago
  > some people the term implies acceptance of a heteronormative framework. Hmm, this makes sense—I didn't interpret "queer" as meaning "different from you or me" but rather that the way they appear in society is different from the way they identify. I guess this does imply society is heteronormative, but that's DOES seem to be reality.

by duaneb 10y ago

I don't get why people don't just use "queer", which is a true catch all for, well, queered identities. It doesn't seem to take off outside of academia, where it is rigorously used and defined.

sevenless 10y ago

Because: (1) it's an insult. Some of us grew up with 'Smear the Queer' played in school. I am not 'queer', I'm gay (or homosexual, if you want to be clinical). (2) There is nothing we have in common with these other groups to justify conflating them with gay people. Their causes aren't mine. Gay people aren't the other letters. I neither support lumping all these disparate groups together, nor had any say on it. Actually, why not just call us 'sex weirdos'? It's got the same meaning coming from straight people.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Actually, why not just call us 'sex weirdos'? It's got the same meaning coming from straight people. No, it doesn't (it has roughly the same meaning coming from heteronormative bigots, but that set is not coextensive with the set of straight people.)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
  - duaneb 10y ago
    A) It's not always about sexuality. B) What does "imposing a category" even mean? Nobody is forcing you to identify as anything. Very few of my gay friends will self-identify as queer. I identify as queer. I find a lot of strength from the fact that I don't need to neatly fit onto the kinsey scale, and I hope that you can remember the discomfort of "Smear the Queer" to reach out to all the people and interests who were neglected in the gay marriage campaign. If you are interested in learning more (I suspect from your confrontational attitude you are not), I highly recommend "Against Equality: Queer Critiques of Gay Marriage".
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
      - duaneb 10y ago
        > That's hilarious. Leaving the (almost entirely upper-middle-class) ivory tower of po-mo navel-gazing and self-righteousness, getting married actually makes a very significant difference to some of us in the real world. Hence my recommendation; it's not anti-marriage in the sense of commitment or benefits. And I don't think marriage is a fundamental right; even defining it satisfactorily casually (let alone legally) to married people is impossible. The concrete rights that matter are legal benefits, and those still exclude poly people and people wishing to grant rights to relative or non-humans. Gay marriage only included gay people. It is inherently a bigoted institution while it retains any emphasis on heteronormativity (now extended to gay people, who are honorarily heteronormative under the law) or religion (i.e. all the opposition to gay marriage).
duaneb 10y ago
I can respect this. On a personal level, I think it's a positive movement. Self-identifying as queer does take some of the power of the pejorative away; these days I hear the term exclusively used as self-identification or for shared interests in the non-heteronormative community. While you don't have to take a part in those communities, they do explicitly have your interest as gay at heart. Meanwhile, bigots and employers do not distinguish between non-cis subgroups, so the shared front DOES make sense in approaching CERTAIN problems. Others, like the ability for gay men to donate blood, are not shared and do not make sense as primarily "queer" causes. > Actually, why not just call us 'sex weirdos'? It's got the same meaning coming from straight people. What other synonym would you recommend for "non-heteronormative"?

dragonwriter 10y ago

> I don't get why people don't just use "queer", which is a true catch all for, well, queered identities. Some people do identify as "queer" (its the Q in LGBTQ...) OTOH, lots of people that identify as LGBT, etc., don't, for a variety of reasons -- including it being a catch-all, and also, IIRC, because to some people the term implies acceptance of a heteronormative framework.

duaneb 10y ago
> some people the term implies acceptance of a heteronormative framework. Hmm, this makes sense—I didn't interpret "queer" as meaning "different from you or me" but rather that the way they appear in society is different from the way they identify. I guess this does imply society is heteronormative, but that's DOES seem to be reality.