5 ms·

Sick and tired of non-swedes thinking socialists ever did anything for this country. Nothing was "solved" by politics in those years. Quite the opposite, our le

Sick and tired of non-swedes thinking socialists ever did anything for this country. Nothing was "solved" by politics in those years. Quite the opposite, our lean and mean economy faltered until the socialists became fiscally conservative in the 90s. The sheer arrogance of Swedes dissing US is also annoying. Go to our new ghettos and inspect the great equity the progressives have established lately.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
EdSharkey 10y ago
Fiscally conservative ... socialism?? Huh. Now that would be something I'd like to see tried here in the United States! Waste is treated like an benign abstraction here: an assumed given of "bureaucratic overhead" that nothing can be done about except occasionally talk and handwave over. I'd guess you'd need to have a culture that encourages whistleblowing, snitches, and oversight to make fiscally conservative socialism work. Such a culture doesn't exist here in the US.
- ersii 10y ago
  Um, hm? I don't know how you get to "Fiscally conservative socialism". The previous comment said that the socialists (ie. Social Democrats, Left Party - previously known as The Communist Party) became somewhat fiscally conservative. There is a huge difference in how you would read that. The interpretation that you should go for is "The socialist being less socialist for the time being". In other words, they toned it down briefly. They're certainly at it again now. That said, there is plenty of waste and bureaucratic excess/largess in Sweden - and it's very hand-wavy and nothing can apparently be done to reduce it when you start talking about it. The last part of your comment I did not quite understand. What do you mean by having a culture that "encourages whistle blowing, snitches and oversight"? You mean that in order to have some kind of socialism to be fiscally conservative - you'd need whistle blowers that would rat out largess and snitch on people who waste State resources? If that is what you mean, we have some of that (whistle blowers) - but we also have way more waste than what covers whatever gets surfaced. They're also few and far between..
  - EdSharkey 10y ago
    You injected the "somewhat", not grandparent. But I see that you corrected me because you were nonplussed with the fiscal conservatism at the time it was tried. I don't follow European socialist gyrations, so I'll take your word for it. > What do you mean by having a culture that "encourages whistle blowing, snitches and oversight"? You mean that in order to have some kind of socialism to be fiscally conservative - you'd need whistle blowers that would rat out largess and snitch on people who waste State resources? Yes, precisely. The culture of the US still favors lawlessness, and I don't mean that negatively. Unfortunately, for us all to get along in such an unregulated environment, we have to be civil with one another, be fair dealing, and be intolerant of corruption. But the US system has grown too fat, and too many selfish and corrupt people are taking advantage of the good graces of the rest of the populace. And the corruption is allowed to run unchecked. Also, the regulations and bureaucracies and debt and corporations have all crept up on us. So the system is no longer operating to spec, and no major redesigns are planned. I just don't see where we go from here. The presidential candidates we've selected are indicative of system failure.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
stvswn 10y ago
American progressives tend to use Sweden (and Scandanavia generally) as models of how socialism can succeed, probably unaware that Sweden is a highly-productive, modern, capitalist society with capiitalist notions free trade, property rights, investment freedom, and monetary policy. In other words, socialists love to provide examples of socialism that are pretty devoid of actual socialism. Sweden has high taxes and a generous welfare regime, but it doesn't have government ownership of the means of production ("socialism"). That's why Sweden is Sweden. Source: Heritage foundation's economic freedom index (Sweden does very well: http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden)
- aminok 10y ago
  And Sweden's economic growth rate stagnated after it adopted large social welfare programs in the 1970s, and only somewhat recovered when it instituted market reforms in the late 90s and 2000s, including reductions in social benefits and income tax cuts.
  - uola 10y ago
    That seems quite unlikely since Sweden had right wing governments during 76-82 and 91-94.
    - arvinjoar 10y ago
      All it takes is an Olof Palme... :P

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

EdSharkey 10y ago

Fiscally conservative ... socialism?? Huh. Now that would be something I'd like to see tried here in the United States! Waste is treated like an benign abstraction here: an assumed given of "bureaucratic overhead" that nothing can be done about except occasionally talk and handwave over. I'd guess you'd need to have a culture that encourages whistleblowing, snitches, and oversight to make fiscally conservative socialism work. Such a culture doesn't exist here in the US.

ersii 10y ago
Um, hm? I don't know how you get to "Fiscally conservative socialism". The previous comment said that the socialists (ie. Social Democrats, Left Party - previously known as The Communist Party) became somewhat fiscally conservative. There is a huge difference in how you would read that. The interpretation that you should go for is "The socialist being less socialist for the time being". In other words, they toned it down briefly. They're certainly at it again now. That said, there is plenty of waste and bureaucratic excess/largess in Sweden - and it's very hand-wavy and nothing can apparently be done to reduce it when you start talking about it. The last part of your comment I did not quite understand. What do you mean by having a culture that "encourages whistle blowing, snitches and oversight"? You mean that in order to have some kind of socialism to be fiscally conservative - you'd need whistle blowers that would rat out largess and snitch on people who waste State resources? If that is what you mean, we have some of that (whistle blowers) - but we also have way more waste than what covers whatever gets surfaced. They're also few and far between..
- EdSharkey 10y ago
  You injected the "somewhat", not grandparent. But I see that you corrected me because you were nonplussed with the fiscal conservatism at the time it was tried. I don't follow European socialist gyrations, so I'll take your word for it. > What do you mean by having a culture that "encourages whistle blowing, snitches and oversight"? You mean that in order to have some kind of socialism to be fiscally conservative - you'd need whistle blowers that would rat out largess and snitch on people who waste State resources? Yes, precisely. The culture of the US still favors lawlessness, and I don't mean that negatively. Unfortunately, for us all to get along in such an unregulated environment, we have to be civil with one another, be fair dealing, and be intolerant of corruption. But the US system has grown too fat, and too many selfish and corrupt people are taking advantage of the good graces of the rest of the populace. And the corruption is allowed to run unchecked. Also, the regulations and bureaucracies and debt and corporations have all crept up on us. So the system is no longer operating to spec, and no major redesigns are planned. I just don't see where we go from here. The presidential candidates we've selected are indicative of system failure.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

stvswn 10y ago

American progressives tend to use Sweden (and Scandanavia generally) as models of how socialism can succeed, probably unaware that Sweden is a highly-productive, modern, capitalist society with capiitalist notions free trade, property rights, investment freedom, and monetary policy. In other words, socialists love to provide examples of socialism that are pretty devoid of actual socialism. Sweden has high taxes and a generous welfare regime, but it doesn't have government ownership of the means of production ("socialism"). That's why Sweden is Sweden. Source: Heritage foundation's economic freedom index (Sweden does very well: http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden http://www.heritage.org/index/country/sweden)

aminok 10y ago
And Sweden's economic growth rate stagnated after it adopted large social welfare programs in the 1970s, and only somewhat recovered when it instituted market reforms in the late 90s and 2000s, including reductions in social benefits and income tax cuts.
- uola 10y ago
  That seems quite unlikely since Sweden had right wing governments during 76-82 and 91-94.
  - arvinjoar 10y ago
    All it takes is an Olof Palme... :P