4 ms·

Does the advent of docker containers make creation and deployment of more complex systems as easy as wordpress? (I'm asking, I don't have any real experience o

by jbb555 10y ago

Does the advent of docker containers make creation and deployment of more complex systems as easy as wordpress? (I'm asking, I don't have any real experience of docker)

jdavis703 10y ago
Not for non-technical users. It's just another layer or abstraction.
lojack 10y ago
I would say not currently. If anything, I'd say that Docker can make creation and deployment of complex systems more complexed. There's various tools (and work on docker itself) to attempt to simplify this, but I'd say the tooling isn't quite there yet.
- jmelett 10y ago
  Full disclosure: I work at Divio This is exactly where Divio comes in with the "Aldryn CLI" and "Aldryn Desktop App". The mentioned tools allow you replicate complex setups with a few simple clicks on your local machine, without having to learn the whole architecture of Docker & co. We'd love you to try it out for your feedback, it's a huge effort for us and it's been great to have the encouragement of the Django/Python communities, but when we start making traction with WordPress and PHP users we'll know we're really getting where we want.
  - soared 10y ago
    I'll give your platform a try soon. I've exclusively made wp sites because it is quick and easy to accomplish what I want, as long as it is simple. If you want to make traction with the wp crowd, you'll need a website redesign. Go to wordpress.com and there is literally a button that says "create website". Your website says "lifting django into the cloud". What the hell does that mean? (I know what it actually means). Sign up and deploy a site in the cloud? No... I just want to make a website. I don't want to deploy and sign up. etc. (I know its the same exact thing, your marketing will just have to change.)
    - DanieleProcida 10y ago
      OK, thanks! That's very interesting feedback.
DanieleProcida 10y ago
Docker doesn't do it automatically, of course, but it makes it easier to to build systems that make easier deployment and hosting possible.
busterarm 10y ago
I'm a dev who came from the Rails world to a primarily Wordpress one in my current gig. Wordpress still has some pain points for me (schemaless database) that are only half-solved for me with plugins (mainly ACF Pro and Post To Post Links) and a lot of code. I've basically built a request router and ~MVC into Wordpress several times over, but not something I'm satisfied with enough to release to public. Most of the practices that we're used to elsewhere can be applied in the Wordpress space. Our build process relies on GitHub, Composer, Satis, CircleCI and Ansible (and we use Homestead locally). We use modern hosts who are amenable to git deployments so we don't have to use sftp. It took some work to get to here but it's easier. Honestly it's far easier than most of what I've had to deal with in the Rails space. Wordpress, for the right kind of sites, can be great to develop on. Truly great. And it's always great for content creators. I have yet to see another CMS deliver half that experience for content creators. Please, show me one -- so that I don't _HAVE_ to use Wordpress anymore. This gig has been interesting though. I see it as an opportunity to bring saner practices into the WordPress space. If anybody is going to LoopConf and wants to have a beer and a chat, let me know. Keep the plugins to a minimum and you'll have a great time.
- 20years 10y ago
  "I've basically built a request router and ~MVC into Wordpress" That sounds really interesting and something I think a lot of devs would be interested in.
  - busterarm 10y ago
    I agree. A lot of folks have worked on the latter but I haven't seen much of the former and had to build it myself. In both cases what I did was highly specific to the spec of the WordPress site. I've yet to come up with something generic enough and well-built enough that I'm comfortable sharing. That's a problem with the WordPress ecosystem in general I think. The key moment to understanding Wordpress was realizing that its use of hooks and filters are the publish-subscribe pattern. You can just hook the `parse request` action and then do whatever the hell you like as long as you make sure that the `query` (and ultimately `wp` object) that comes out at the end of the process doesn't have something unexpected in it (tricky!)
bluedino 10y ago
Docker doesn't work on the cheap mass shared hosts.
- collyw 10y ago
  No idea if it would work on Rackspace. Probably but it will be more hassle to get set up rather than less.

by jbb555 10y ago

Does the advent of docker containers make creation and deployment of more complex systems as easy as wordpress? (I'm asking, I don't have any real experience of docker)

jdavis703 10y ago

Not for non-technical users. It's just another layer or abstraction.

lojack 10y ago

I would say not currently. If anything, I'd say that Docker can make creation and deployment of complex systems more complexed. There's various tools (and work on docker itself) to attempt to simplify this, but I'd say the tooling isn't quite there yet.

jmelett 10y ago
Full disclosure: I work at Divio This is exactly where Divio comes in with the "Aldryn CLI" and "Aldryn Desktop App". The mentioned tools allow you replicate complex setups with a few simple clicks on your local machine, without having to learn the whole architecture of Docker & co. We'd love you to try it out for your feedback, it's a huge effort for us and it's been great to have the encouragement of the Django/Python communities, but when we start making traction with WordPress and PHP users we'll know we're really getting where we want.
- soared 10y ago
  I'll give your platform a try soon. I've exclusively made wp sites because it is quick and easy to accomplish what I want, as long as it is simple. If you want to make traction with the wp crowd, you'll need a website redesign. Go to wordpress.com and there is literally a button that says "create website". Your website says "lifting django into the cloud". What the hell does that mean? (I know what it actually means). Sign up and deploy a site in the cloud? No... I just want to make a website. I don't want to deploy and sign up. etc. (I know its the same exact thing, your marketing will just have to change.)
  - DanieleProcida 10y ago
    OK, thanks! That's very interesting feedback.

DanieleProcida 10y ago

Docker doesn't do it automatically, of course, but it makes it easier to to build systems that make easier deployment and hosting possible.

busterarm 10y ago

I'm a dev who came from the Rails world to a primarily Wordpress one in my current gig. Wordpress still has some pain points for me (schemaless database) that are only half-solved for me with plugins (mainly ACF Pro and Post To Post Links) and a lot of code. I've basically built a request router and ~MVC into Wordpress several times over, but not something I'm satisfied with enough to release to public. Most of the practices that we're used to elsewhere can be applied in the Wordpress space. Our build process relies on GitHub, Composer, Satis, CircleCI and Ansible (and we use Homestead locally). We use modern hosts who are amenable to git deployments so we don't have to use sftp. It took some work to get to here but it's easier. Honestly it's far easier than most of what I've had to deal with in the Rails space. Wordpress, for the right kind of sites, can be great to develop on. Truly great. And it's always great for content creators. I have yet to see another CMS deliver half that experience for content creators. Please, show me one -- so that I don't _HAVE_ to use Wordpress anymore. This gig has been interesting though. I see it as an opportunity to bring saner practices into the WordPress space. If anybody is going to LoopConf and wants to have a beer and a chat, let me know. Keep the plugins to a minimum and you'll have a great time.

20years 10y ago
"I've basically built a request router and ~MVC into Wordpress" That sounds really interesting and something I think a lot of devs would be interested in.
- busterarm 10y ago
  I agree. A lot of folks have worked on the latter but I haven't seen much of the former and had to build it myself. In both cases what I did was highly specific to the spec of the WordPress site. I've yet to come up with something generic enough and well-built enough that I'm comfortable sharing. That's a problem with the WordPress ecosystem in general I think. The key moment to understanding Wordpress was realizing that its use of hooks and filters are the publish-subscribe pattern. You can just hook the `parse request` action and then do whatever the hell you like as long as you make sure that the `query` (and ultimately `wp` object) that comes out at the end of the process doesn't have something unexpected in it (tricky!)

bluedino 10y ago

Docker doesn't work on the cheap mass shared hosts.

collyw 10y ago
No idea if it would work on Rackspace. Probably but it will be more hassle to get set up rather than less.