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Certainly interesting. This felt out of place to me in the concrete actions you can take now: "Keep having children because a) the world needs more smart childr

Certainly interesting. This felt out of place to me in the concrete actions you can take now: "Keep having children because a) the world needs more smart children and b) by the time they get really expensive, who knows what things will be like." Sure these are fair points but dependents do limit ones ability to make decisions 'suddenly'

mavdi 10y ago
Indeed. As a dad I can say having kids is by far the most financial unsound decision one can make.
- dicroce 10y ago
  Life isn't all about money.
  - rco8786 10y ago
    No, but the article was.
  - facetube 10y ago
    Until you're out of money. Then life becomes very much about money.
  - hx87 10y ago
    The poorer you are, the more your life is about money.
  - allemagne 10y ago
    "Having money's not everything. Not having it is"
    - mjrbrennan 10y ago
      Nice Kanye quote
- homegarlic 10y ago
  Depends on where you live. I can live on about $900 usd per month feeding 5 people earning more than twice that amount (excluding the income of my significant other). The quality of life is great and I earn more than I will ever spend - my paycheck is about 3 times above the national average. Since health care and education is "free" in Croatia, I don't have any debt and feel very secure when it comes to needs of my children.
  - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
    It's not food that breaks the bank though, it's medical costs. How is your insurance?
    - allannienhuis 10y ago
      > Since health care and education is "free" in Croatia most places with free health care at least cap the cost of prescriptions and other related health costs to some pretty reasonable amount in most cases. Most people living in western countries outside of the USA really don't lose any sleep thinking about health care costs. There are always some exceptions (some chronic or unusual conditions not covered), but it really isn't on the list of things most people worry about much. I've always found it astounding that people in the USA seem to think living with the looming spectre of financial collapse from medical debt as an acceptable (or only realistic) option for their society.
    - homegarlic 10y ago
      Yep, insurance (which is universal and funded through taxes mostly) covers a vast array of stuff, from severe surgeries to small checkups. Even cancer chemotherapy wouldn't cost me a penny. I do pay around 30 usd monthly to cover me, my significant other, and my children - when it comes to those small medical costs (medical checkups, vaccines etc.). Everything more complicated is covered by the tax system :D I do not think there could be a situation where they would decline to operate, or that they would bankrupt me with the bill.
tjpaudio 10y ago
I think the author is touching on the fact that there is so much uncertainty around this due to children being so long term that putting off making your family for short-term financial reasons doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The short-term gain from putting off kids is small.
- hx87 10y ago
  What about the long term gain?
  - rglullis 10y ago
    I am all for delayed gratification, being mindful of your lifestyle and consumption, but this should not translate to having all of our life decisions based on the final chapters of our lives. In the long term, we are all dead. With regards with kids and family planning, the cruel calculus (especially for women) is that the more we get close to the best income-generating years, the closer we get to risky pregnancies and lower fertility. I am losing count of how many mid-30s women I've met who kept postponing to start their families and now are desperately trying to revert their biological clocks.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      Times have changed. When my parents were in their twenties, they were buying their first house, having kids, and starting up the (relatively certain) career ladder. If you're in your twenties today, there's no way you're thinking about either of these because you're saddled with six figures of student loan debt, and do not have the employment certainty it takes to take root in an area to buy a home.
      - phamilton 10y ago
        > they were buying their first house, having kids, and starting up the (relatively certain) career ladder There's still plenty of people still doing exactly that. Get out of the HCOL areas and there are tons of people going to an inexpensive state school and buying a house in a new suburb outside of Boise Idaho or wherever. I bring up Boise because I did an internship with Micron 5 years ago and other interns were meeting with realtors so they could buy a house as soon as they graduated.
Decade 10y ago
If you have 6 months in the bank, then you don’t need to make decisions “suddenly.” I think it is sound advice. Life does not wait for anything. Would you rather be a poor person who raised a family, or do you want to be a rich person who waited too long? Assuming you want kids at all, of course. If you have the financial discipline and spousal support to have 6 months saved up, then you can apply that discipline to raising the kids. No private school that you can’t afford. No designer clothing or unnecessary shoes. No TV with ads that awaken consumer envy.
dhd415 10y ago
That statement makes sense given that there's really never a convenient time to have kids or a point in time at which they will become less expensive. If having kids is a priority for you, it's better to start earlier rather than later because you'll be able to make decisions with the next 18+ years of raising children in mind rather than an uncertain horizon of childlessness followed by the possibility of children.
- 100k 10y ago
  To add to this: I won't say anyone should have kids now or ever, but take it from me, if you wait to have kids it can become significantly more expensive (not to mention the emotional cost).
  - harmegido 10y ago
    im curious as to why kids get more expensive the longer you wait to have them?
    - dhd415 10y ago
      Lots of my peers in their late 30s and early or mid 40s who have decided they now want kids are spending 5-figure sums on fertility procedures such as IVF, etc. Also, there's a substantial increase in the probability of birth defects when the mother reaches that age, so other medical costs can increase dramatically. It's not a financial cost, but there's also the fact that it's nice to be relatively young and healthy when you're chasing toddlers around the house.
      - hx87 10y ago
        Would they have forgone more income than the cost of fertility procedures had they had kids earlier though? Besides, if you use a surrogate mother and use donated or frozen eggs and sperm, you sidestep the higher probability of birth defects. > it's nice to be relatively young and healthy when you're chasing toddlers Why the assumption that you'll be not so healthy in your 40s and 50s? My parents had me in their late 30s and they didn't seem to lack for energy compared to what they and their friends remember of their 20s. Hell, I'll bet even if they had more kids right now they'll still have the same health and energy.

mavdi 10y ago

Indeed. As a dad I can say having kids is by far the most financial unsound decision one can make.

dicroce 10y ago
Life isn't all about money.
- rco8786 10y ago
  No, but the article was.
- facetube 10y ago
  Until you're out of money. Then life becomes very much about money.
- hx87 10y ago
  The poorer you are, the more your life is about money.
- allemagne 10y ago
  "Having money's not everything. Not having it is"
  - mjrbrennan 10y ago
    Nice Kanye quote
homegarlic 10y ago
Depends on where you live. I can live on about $900 usd per month feeding 5 people earning more than twice that amount (excluding the income of my significant other). The quality of life is great and I earn more than I will ever spend - my paycheck is about 3 times above the national average. Since health care and education is "free" in Croatia, I don't have any debt and feel very secure when it comes to needs of my children.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  It's not food that breaks the bank though, it's medical costs. How is your insurance?
  - allannienhuis 10y ago
    > Since health care and education is "free" in Croatia most places with free health care at least cap the cost of prescriptions and other related health costs to some pretty reasonable amount in most cases. Most people living in western countries outside of the USA really don't lose any sleep thinking about health care costs. There are always some exceptions (some chronic or unusual conditions not covered), but it really isn't on the list of things most people worry about much. I've always found it astounding that people in the USA seem to think living with the looming spectre of financial collapse from medical debt as an acceptable (or only realistic) option for their society.
  - homegarlic 10y ago
    Yep, insurance (which is universal and funded through taxes mostly) covers a vast array of stuff, from severe surgeries to small checkups. Even cancer chemotherapy wouldn't cost me a penny. I do pay around 30 usd monthly to cover me, my significant other, and my children - when it comes to those small medical costs (medical checkups, vaccines etc.). Everything more complicated is covered by the tax system :D I do not think there could be a situation where they would decline to operate, or that they would bankrupt me with the bill.

tjpaudio 10y ago

I think the author is touching on the fact that there is so much uncertainty around this due to children being so long term that putting off making your family for short-term financial reasons doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The short-term gain from putting off kids is small.

hx87 10y ago
What about the long term gain?
- rglullis 10y ago
  I am all for delayed gratification, being mindful of your lifestyle and consumption, but this should not translate to having all of our life decisions based on the final chapters of our lives. In the long term, we are all dead. With regards with kids and family planning, the cruel calculus (especially for women) is that the more we get close to the best income-generating years, the closer we get to risky pregnancies and lower fertility. I am losing count of how many mid-30s women I've met who kept postponing to start their families and now are desperately trying to revert their biological clocks.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Times have changed. When my parents were in their twenties, they were buying their first house, having kids, and starting up the (relatively certain) career ladder. If you're in your twenties today, there's no way you're thinking about either of these because you're saddled with six figures of student loan debt, and do not have the employment certainty it takes to take root in an area to buy a home.
    - phamilton 10y ago
      > they were buying their first house, having kids, and starting up the (relatively certain) career ladder There's still plenty of people still doing exactly that. Get out of the HCOL areas and there are tons of people going to an inexpensive state school and buying a house in a new suburb outside of Boise Idaho or wherever. I bring up Boise because I did an internship with Micron 5 years ago and other interns were meeting with realtors so they could buy a house as soon as they graduated.

Decade 10y ago

If you have 6 months in the bank, then you don’t need to make decisions “suddenly.” I think it is sound advice. Life does not wait for anything. Would you rather be a poor person who raised a family, or do you want to be a rich person who waited too long? Assuming you want kids at all, of course. If you have the financial discipline and spousal support to have 6 months saved up, then you can apply that discipline to raising the kids. No private school that you can’t afford. No designer clothing or unnecessary shoes. No TV with ads that awaken consumer envy.

dhd415 10y ago

That statement makes sense given that there's really never a convenient time to have kids or a point in time at which they will become less expensive. If having kids is a priority for you, it's better to start earlier rather than later because you'll be able to make decisions with the next 18+ years of raising children in mind rather than an uncertain horizon of childlessness followed by the possibility of children.

100k 10y ago
To add to this: I won't say anyone should have kids now or ever, but take it from me, if you wait to have kids it can become significantly more expensive (not to mention the emotional cost).
- harmegido 10y ago
  im curious as to why kids get more expensive the longer you wait to have them?
  - dhd415 10y ago
    Lots of my peers in their late 30s and early or mid 40s who have decided they now want kids are spending 5-figure sums on fertility procedures such as IVF, etc. Also, there's a substantial increase in the probability of birth defects when the mother reaches that age, so other medical costs can increase dramatically. It's not a financial cost, but there's also the fact that it's nice to be relatively young and healthy when you're chasing toddlers around the house.
    - hx87 10y ago
      Would they have forgone more income than the cost of fertility procedures had they had kids earlier though? Besides, if you use a surrogate mother and use donated or frozen eggs and sperm, you sidestep the higher probability of birth defects. > it's nice to be relatively young and healthy when you're chasing toddlers Why the assumption that you'll be not so healthy in your 40s and 50s? My parents had me in their late 30s and they didn't seem to lack for energy compared to what they and their friends remember of their 20s. Hell, I'll bet even if they had more kids right now they'll still have the same health and energy.