6 ms·

True, Sweden is clean and has no homelessness issues. But it is now quite segregated (not unlike France with its banlieus) full of not-homeless, but, unfortuna

by jazzyk 10y ago

True, Sweden is clean and has no homelessness issues. But it is now quite segregated (not unlike France with its banlieus) full of not-homeless, but, unfortunately, un-assimilated population. A blog written by an American living in Sweden (check out the other posts on the blog as well): https://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/ https://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-...

pavlov 10y ago
I'm not sure if "segregated" is the right word. The economic gap between Stockholm downtown and a suburb is smaller than, say, the gap between Washington D.C. and a small town in West Virginia. Does that mean the United States is hopelessly economically segregated, with permanently unassimilated redneck populations that refuse to join the urban mainstream? If that's an unfair interpretation, why make the same kind of rhetorical leaps about European cities?
- jazzyk 10y ago
  The US is segregated with ghettos in NY, Chicago, Detroit, etc. But I was making a point about Sweden. If you checked the blog I referred to, entitled "Police: Yes, there ARE No-Go Zones in Sweden" you would learn that there are essentially lawless areas where the police concedes that they have indeed lost control. So "segregated" is the right word.
  - pavlov 10y ago
    You linked to a blog post with a large illustration depicting a "typical leftist Internet troll". I've spent over 30 years of my life in Nordic countries. These stories of embedded lawless mini-Afghanistans ruled by local Sharia tyrants don't reflect any reality I've ever seen.
    - jazzyk 10y ago
      No one is claiming that they are "lawless mini-Afghanistans" in Sweden, as you stated. (from the article I linked to: "To the best of my knowledge, there are no Shariah patrols in Sweden.") But there is enough evidence to state that there is segregation. "Segregation (noun): the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart."
  - Kurtz79 10y ago
    It depends to whom you ask. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/par... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-14/debunking-the-muslim-nogo-zone-myth http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-14/debunking-... The source article from the blog states "In the autumn of 2014 reported the National Police for 55 neighborhoods in 22 cities around the country where "local criminal networks is considered to have a negative impact on the local community." It's about neighborhoods that are characterized by "open drug sales, criminal dealings that manifests itself in serious violence in a public place, various forms of extortion and unlawful influence and acting out grievances against society." The blog post you mention (the author makes no mystery of his ideas), and the source article, seems to take an official report stating that 55 zones have seen a worrying rise in crime and mixing it with anecdotal evidence and unrelated quotes to come to the conclusion that there are 55 "no-go" zones where "swedish law no longer applies", to spin a particular story for their readers. Mind, I'm not claiming liberal leaning press is any different and, as with everything, the truth probably stands somewhere in between.
  - ObeyTheGuts 10y ago
    I have traveled all over europe ON FOOT, which usually means i walk trough all sorts of hoods, never ever even once i was in place where i would say its a No-Go, then i visited my aunt in florida for a month and experienced robbery at a gun point, prostitute harassing me, and 'what u looking at' comments, from my experience usa is worse than third world as iv been to morocco and mauritania and senegal and had great experience with free hospital care.
pigscantfly 10y ago
Stockholm is not entirely free from homelessness issues; there are lots of people - largely Roma, according to relatives and my own judgement - begging on the streets and in the train and metro stations. This is not something I used to see there.
- ersii 10y ago
  I see plenty of homeless Swedes every day when I walk from the Stockholm Central Station to my work in Stockholm City - at least five, everyday - and that's a short walk. Sure, it's not San Francisco - but it'd be an incredible lie to say there are no homeless, like the previous comment before you said
- jonex 10y ago
  I'd say that this is not really a Sweden thing as it's an EU thing. The come mainly from Romania and stay in Sweden for a few months begging for money, then they go back home. As they aren't Swedish citizens, and don't aim to be, (they often got family back home) the systems in place to handle homeless aren't working for them. Really it's countries like Romania that aren't handling it's Romani population very well and tend to have quite unhelpful racist attitudes towards them, making the issue worse. There are also a few homeless people of Swedish origin, but they are mostly either drug addicts or otherwise mentally ill, making them unable to keep an apartment. Money shouldn't be a big issue as you qualify for social security payouts that cover essentials and rent if you can't get it by other means. However, mentally ill might fail to get this money, it requires a monthly visit at the local social services office and they can require participation in activities as job training as well as accepting any job you can get.
  - ObeyTheGuts 10y ago
    Im homeless and im not ill or anything, i enjoy freedom, i would rather die than have a job or a house or even a car. People assuming all hobos are mentally fucked is same as me assumimg all domestic people have a ferrari, those r just more flashy visible cases...
    - 10y ago
enraged_camel 10y ago
>>But it is now quite segregated (not unlike France with its banlieus) full of not-homeless, but, unfortunately, un-assimilated population. I'm not convinced that having everyone "assimilated" is a realistic goal. People of different social classes tend to not want to associate themselves with one another. And social class is about more than just income.

by jazzyk 10y ago

pavlov 10y ago

I'm not sure if "segregated" is the right word. The economic gap between Stockholm downtown and a suburb is smaller than, say, the gap between Washington D.C. and a small town in West Virginia. Does that mean the United States is hopelessly economically segregated, with permanently unassimilated redneck populations that refuse to join the urban mainstream? If that's an unfair interpretation, why make the same kind of rhetorical leaps about European cities?

jazzyk 10y ago
The US is segregated with ghettos in NY, Chicago, Detroit, etc. But I was making a point about Sweden. If you checked the blog I referred to, entitled "Police: Yes, there ARE No-Go Zones in Sweden" you would learn that there are essentially lawless areas where the police concedes that they have indeed lost control. So "segregated" is the right word.
- pavlov 10y ago
  You linked to a blog post with a large illustration depicting a "typical leftist Internet troll". I've spent over 30 years of my life in Nordic countries. These stories of embedded lawless mini-Afghanistans ruled by local Sharia tyrants don't reflect any reality I've ever seen.
  - jazzyk 10y ago
    No one is claiming that they are "lawless mini-Afghanistans" in Sweden, as you stated. (from the article I linked to: "To the best of my knowledge, there are no Shariah patrols in Sweden.") But there is enough evidence to state that there is segregation. "Segregation (noun): the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart."
- Kurtz79 10y ago
  It depends to whom you ask. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/par... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-14/debunking-the-muslim-nogo-zone-myth http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-14/debunking-... The source article from the blog states "In the autumn of 2014 reported the National Police for 55 neighborhoods in 22 cities around the country where "local criminal networks is considered to have a negative impact on the local community." It's about neighborhoods that are characterized by "open drug sales, criminal dealings that manifests itself in serious violence in a public place, various forms of extortion and unlawful influence and acting out grievances against society." The blog post you mention (the author makes no mystery of his ideas), and the source article, seems to take an official report stating that 55 zones have seen a worrying rise in crime and mixing it with anecdotal evidence and unrelated quotes to come to the conclusion that there are 55 "no-go" zones where "swedish law no longer applies", to spin a particular story for their readers. Mind, I'm not claiming liberal leaning press is any different and, as with everything, the truth probably stands somewhere in between.
- ObeyTheGuts 10y ago
  I have traveled all over europe ON FOOT, which usually means i walk trough all sorts of hoods, never ever even once i was in place where i would say its a No-Go, then i visited my aunt in florida for a month and experienced robbery at a gun point, prostitute harassing me, and 'what u looking at' comments, from my experience usa is worse than third world as iv been to morocco and mauritania and senegal and had great experience with free hospital care.

pigscantfly 10y ago

Stockholm is not entirely free from homelessness issues; there are lots of people - largely Roma, according to relatives and my own judgement - begging on the streets and in the train and metro stations. This is not something I used to see there.

ersii 10y ago
I see plenty of homeless Swedes every day when I walk from the Stockholm Central Station to my work in Stockholm City - at least five, everyday - and that's a short walk. Sure, it's not San Francisco - but it'd be an incredible lie to say there are no homeless, like the previous comment before you said
jonex 10y ago
I'd say that this is not really a Sweden thing as it's an EU thing. The come mainly from Romania and stay in Sweden for a few months begging for money, then they go back home. As they aren't Swedish citizens, and don't aim to be, (they often got family back home) the systems in place to handle homeless aren't working for them. Really it's countries like Romania that aren't handling it's Romani population very well and tend to have quite unhelpful racist attitudes towards them, making the issue worse. There are also a few homeless people of Swedish origin, but they are mostly either drug addicts or otherwise mentally ill, making them unable to keep an apartment. Money shouldn't be a big issue as you qualify for social security payouts that cover essentials and rent if you can't get it by other means. However, mentally ill might fail to get this money, it requires a monthly visit at the local social services office and they can require participation in activities as job training as well as accepting any job you can get.
- ObeyTheGuts 10y ago
  Im homeless and im not ill or anything, i enjoy freedom, i would rather die than have a job or a house or even a car. People assuming all hobos are mentally fucked is same as me assumimg all domestic people have a ferrari, those r just more flashy visible cases...
  - 10y ago

enraged_camel 10y ago

>>But it is now quite segregated (not unlike France with its banlieus) full of not-homeless, but, unfortunately, un-assimilated population. I'm not convinced that having everyone "assimilated" is a realistic goal. People of different social classes tend to not want to associate themselves with one another. And social class is about more than just income.