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Reading this, I realized the US -- including Silicon Valley -- has many commonalities with the Free Software ecosystem. The US is more like a messy, disgusting

by cs702 10y ago

Reading this, I realized the US -- including Silicon Valley -- has many commonalities with the Free Software ecosystem. The US is more like a messy, disgusting, noisy bazaar than a pristine cathedral: * Strong disagreement and polarization on a lot of important issues: for example, in the US we can't agree on the role of government; in the Free Software world we can't agree on even a standard desktop interface. * Constant arguing about the best way forward: for example, in the US, we argue on how best to fix economic issues; in the Free Software world we argue on how best to evolve a really old init system. * Many important problems are ignored, seemingly forever: for example, in the US, a lot of infrastructure (electric grids, roads, bridges, railways, trains) are of subpar quality; in the Free Software world, many projects of extreme or critical importance are in disrepair and/or ignored (e.g., for years, PGP was maintained by a single developer who was broke). Anyone who comes to the US expecting things to work "as they are supposed to" and for everyone to be in happy agreement on important issues is in for serious disappointment. Yet, the messy "bazaar" model seems to work... over time. As Winston Churchill said, "you can always count on Americans to do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else."[1] [1] http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/winstonchu135259.html http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/winstonchu135259....

saynsedit 10y ago
No
- hx87 10y ago
  Could you please elaborate?
  - saynsedit 10y ago
    It's a forced comparison. Comparing free software to the US only makes sense at a superficial level. For every successful comparison there are 10x contradictions. I could compare literally anything to the US in the same vein. For example: The US is a lot like a potato: * it's lumpy! Both the US and a potato are irregularly shaped! * it's brownish: the US is a mix ethnically * it's white on the inside: the US is controlled by mostly white people * it's high in carbohydrates: the US has a large GDP etc.
    - pop8row9 10y ago
      Please, could you provide an example of any mutually intelligible comparison which is not forced, and for which there are not 10x contradictions?
      - saynsedit 10y ago
        Are you seriously implying that relevant substantive comparisons don't exist? There are many, for instance: Comparing the US to free software is like comparing monads to burritos.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - newacct23 10y ago
      He pointed out the parallels between the US and Free software. You have done nothing to refute any of the parallels other than some snarky comment about potatoes which wasn't worth reading. And most importantly there are many governments that are absolutely nothing like the free software ecosystem which gives the analogy worth.
      - saynsedit 10y ago
        The US is as much like Free Software as anything is. That is my point. His comparison is just random fodder based on superficial commonalities. The US is not like Free Software in many important ways: * The US has judges. What is the equivalent of judges in free software? * US law is based on common law. What is the equivalent of common law in free software? * The US has elected representatives. What is the equivalent of elected representatives in Free software. * The US is composed of states, counties, and cities? What are the equivalent states counties and cities in Free Software? * The US has a congress. What is the equivalent in free software? * The US has jails. What is the equivalent of a jail in Free Software? Etc. I could go on and on, but the point really should be obvious by now. The comparison to Free Software is weak and most importantly, unnecessary. China is just as much like Free Software as US is.
    - 10y ago
- magic_beans 10y ago
  > Reading this, I realized the US -- including Silicon Valley -- has many commonalities with the Free Software ecosystem. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and barely a comparison.
jernfrost 10y ago
The Bazaar model only works for certain things. It has worked brilliantly for the plumbing. The stuff we build all of our services and applications on. But when it comes to actually user facing apps I'd say commercial versions wins hands down. Likewise in the real world, the US hardly seems like the best receipt for how to run a society. As a Scandinavian I'd say our model for society has worked better. It is in no way perfect. It has its own set of problems, but those problems simply pale in comparison to the gaping problems found in American society. Of course it depends on who you are building society for. Is it for the many or the few? I'd say it is pointless to build a society which excels at giving the best life for a small minority. That problem was already solved in medieval Europe :-D Building a society which is good for the majority of people and for the least well of is quite hard.

by cs702 10y ago

saynsedit 10y ago

hx87 10y ago
Could you please elaborate?
- saynsedit 10y ago
  It's a forced comparison. Comparing free software to the US only makes sense at a superficial level. For every successful comparison there are 10x contradictions. I could compare literally anything to the US in the same vein. For example: The US is a lot like a potato: * it's lumpy! Both the US and a potato are irregularly shaped! * it's brownish: the US is a mix ethnically * it's white on the inside: the US is controlled by mostly white people * it's high in carbohydrates: the US has a large GDP etc.
  - pop8row9 10y ago
    Please, could you provide an example of any mutually intelligible comparison which is not forced, and for which there are not 10x contradictions?
    - saynsedit 10y ago
      Are you seriously implying that relevant substantive comparisons don't exist? There are many, for instance: Comparing the US to free software is like comparing monads to burritos.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - newacct23 10y ago
    He pointed out the parallels between the US and Free software. You have done nothing to refute any of the parallels other than some snarky comment about potatoes which wasn't worth reading. And most importantly there are many governments that are absolutely nothing like the free software ecosystem which gives the analogy worth.
    - saynsedit 10y ago
      The US is as much like Free Software as anything is. That is my point. His comparison is just random fodder based on superficial commonalities. The US is not like Free Software in many important ways: * The US has judges. What is the equivalent of judges in free software? * US law is based on common law. What is the equivalent of common law in free software? * The US has elected representatives. What is the equivalent of elected representatives in Free software. * The US is composed of states, counties, and cities? What are the equivalent states counties and cities in Free Software? * The US has a congress. What is the equivalent in free software? * The US has jails. What is the equivalent of a jail in Free Software? Etc. I could go on and on, but the point really should be obvious by now. The comparison to Free Software is weak and most importantly, unnecessary. China is just as much like Free Software as US is.
  - 10y ago
magic_beans 10y ago
> Reading this, I realized the US -- including Silicon Valley -- has many commonalities with the Free Software ecosystem. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and barely a comparison.

jernfrost 10y ago

The Bazaar model only works for certain things. It has worked brilliantly for the plumbing. The stuff we build all of our services and applications on. But when it comes to actually user facing apps I'd say commercial versions wins hands down. Likewise in the real world, the US hardly seems like the best receipt for how to run a society. As a Scandinavian I'd say our model for society has worked better. It is in no way perfect. It has its own set of problems, but those problems simply pale in comparison to the gaping problems found in American society. Of course it depends on who you are building society for. Is it for the many or the few? I'd say it is pointless to build a society which excels at giving the best life for a small minority. That problem was already solved in medieval Europe :-D Building a society which is good for the majority of people and for the least well of is quite hard.