4 ms·

I came here to write a snarky comment, but now I can write two ;) first: if you think any particular db platform is clearly a winner in "db wars", you are naiv

by f055 10y ago

I came here to write a snarky comment, but now I can write two ;) first: if you think any particular db platform is clearly a winner in "db wars", you are naive. there are so many factors involved in configuring the db, the backend, the frontend etc. that you can always find a case where: the supposedly winning db is failing, or the supposedly worse db is performing perfectly fine. and from my experience, you should always use the platform/framework/language that is best for the current project, not the one you madly love. clearly postgres wasn't working for uber. that does not mean it will not work for your project. i have a recent experience where a binary file of a programming object works much much faster than mysql and solves several other problems. would i say "use binary files instead of rdbms"? of course not. but in this one case it does wonders. the "tech-vs-tech" wars need to end, they are pointless. second: if you cannot setup your blog to withstand an HN spike then maybe you don't have as much real world experience with scalability (albeit simple) as you might think (hint: static page cache behind cdn will make you almost bulletproof - also, with for example Azure, that's dead cheap).

dkersten 10y ago
re: your second point, this isn't necessarily anything to do with database scalability or tuning.
- f055 10y ago
  exactly my point. sometimes the solution has nothing to do with the perceived problem.
eyan 10y ago
I came here to thank the Postgres developers for their hard work. Also their grace under such trying times.
majewsky 10y ago
> static page cache behind cdn I wouldn't want my page behind a CDN. CDNs make users much more trackable across sites. My point isn't that CDNs are bad for everyone. My point is, once more, that most questions are not as simple as they may appear.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  > CDNs make users much more trackable across sites. How does has CDN do this in a way that a "regular" web deployment wouldn't?
  - j_s 10y ago
    A third party (CDN provider) can easily track visits entirely server-side across all of the sites that it serves. Typically this is sites owned by lots of different companies users could otherwise visit without any of those companies knowing of visits to any other companies' sites -- the CDN knows. This also comes up when the CDN handles SSL termination.
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    The same CDN is serving thousands of sites, so they can track a ton of what users do. CDNs are perfectly placed to capture and sell user stats.
arnarbi 10y ago
That second point is a really unnecessarily belittling straw man, and I think such comments are counterproductive to the discussion.
- throw18173218 10y ago
  And these moralizing comments make HN dull and dreary. Compared to 7-10 years ago sometimes I feel that suddenly we're in some sort of new Victorian era.
- debaserab2 10y ago
  I don't know, if you're going to critique the very talented engineers at Uber, seeing your blog fall over due to capacity doesn't lend you a lot of credibility.
  - thinkMOAR 10y ago
    On what information do you base your opinion that the engineers at uber are very talented? So far what i have seen, the only thing Uber is talented at is violating local laws and then throwing sacks of money at it to pay fines or whatever. (and inflating their own (bubble)value, but probably not many people agree with that) Seeing their blogs mysql-> postgres followed by a postgres -> mysql migration, doesn't give me the idea they are very talented (they still might be, but so far no data has proven me this). Talented would be to forsee these issues and to have avoided encountering them at all. At least that would be my definition of very talented.
    - debaserab2 10y ago
      I'm not sure what anything you said has to do with their choice of database.
      - thinkMOAR 10y ago
        Then with your own reasoning, i'm also not sure that is worth a comment of yours. I clearly indicate their recent changing of db software twice to avoid issues (experts could solve) is an indication one in my eyes is not very talented.
sqldba 10y ago
It's not about being the best, it's just about comparing offerings.
bigato 10y ago
The fact that you can find exceptions do not change the fact that in the common case, tech x is better than tech y. Unless your use case clearly is one of the exceptions most of the time, you still win by choosing the tech that produces the best results most of the time, instead of the one that produces the best results in the exceptional cases only. So that tech-x versus tech-y is still very relevant.
simon2Q 10y ago
I agree that you should use the best tools for the current project. That is why we need to discuss which tool is the best and in what cases, which is all we've been doing here: providing the information people need to make reasonable comparisons. There can be clear winners in such discussions, though this changes over the years. Many people are now concluding that Postgres is a winner at the present time and usage is expanding significantly. The people I meet aren't madly in love with Postgres, they make rational choices with the best information they have. Uber posted their information in the hope others would benefit. I think they have and I thank them for it. (Whether you forgive me or not, I don't manage our blog site, but I guess they'll be some discussions. ;-) )
hitekker 10y ago
I sincerely dislike it when the mods change the positions of comments in a thread.

by f055 10y ago

dkersten 10y ago

re: your second point, this isn't necessarily anything to do with database scalability or tuning.

f055 10y ago
exactly my point. sometimes the solution has nothing to do with the perceived problem.

eyan 10y ago

I came here to thank the Postgres developers for their hard work. Also their grace under such trying times.

majewsky 10y ago

> static page cache behind cdn I wouldn't want my page behind a CDN. CDNs make users much more trackable across sites. My point isn't that CDNs are bad for everyone. My point is, once more, that most questions are not as simple as they may appear.

paulddraper 10y ago
> CDNs make users much more trackable across sites. How does has CDN do this in a way that a "regular" web deployment wouldn't?
- j_s 10y ago
  A third party (CDN provider) can easily track visits entirely server-side across all of the sites that it serves. Typically this is sites owned by lots of different companies users could otherwise visit without any of those companies knowing of visits to any other companies' sites -- the CDN knows. This also comes up when the CDN handles SSL termination.
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  The same CDN is serving thousands of sites, so they can track a ton of what users do. CDNs are perfectly placed to capture and sell user stats.

arnarbi 10y ago

That second point is a really unnecessarily belittling straw man, and I think such comments are counterproductive to the discussion.

throw18173218 10y ago
And these moralizing comments make HN dull and dreary. Compared to 7-10 years ago sometimes I feel that suddenly we're in some sort of new Victorian era.
debaserab2 10y ago
I don't know, if you're going to critique the very talented engineers at Uber, seeing your blog fall over due to capacity doesn't lend you a lot of credibility.
- thinkMOAR 10y ago
  On what information do you base your opinion that the engineers at uber are very talented? So far what i have seen, the only thing Uber is talented at is violating local laws and then throwing sacks of money at it to pay fines or whatever. (and inflating their own (bubble)value, but probably not many people agree with that) Seeing their blogs mysql-> postgres followed by a postgres -> mysql migration, doesn't give me the idea they are very talented (they still might be, but so far no data has proven me this). Talented would be to forsee these issues and to have avoided encountering them at all. At least that would be my definition of very talented.
  - debaserab2 10y ago
    I'm not sure what anything you said has to do with their choice of database.
    - thinkMOAR 10y ago
      Then with your own reasoning, i'm also not sure that is worth a comment of yours. I clearly indicate their recent changing of db software twice to avoid issues (experts could solve) is an indication one in my eyes is not very talented.

sqldba 10y ago

It's not about being the best, it's just about comparing offerings.

bigato 10y ago

The fact that you can find exceptions do not change the fact that in the common case, tech x is better than tech y. Unless your use case clearly is one of the exceptions most of the time, you still win by choosing the tech that produces the best results most of the time, instead of the one that produces the best results in the exceptional cases only. So that tech-x versus tech-y is still very relevant.

simon2Q 10y ago

I agree that you should use the best tools for the current project. That is why we need to discuss which tool is the best and in what cases, which is all we've been doing here: providing the information people need to make reasonable comparisons. There can be clear winners in such discussions, though this changes over the years. Many people are now concluding that Postgres is a winner at the present time and usage is expanding significantly. The people I meet aren't madly in love with Postgres, they make rational choices with the best information they have. Uber posted their information in the hope others would benefit. I think they have and I thank them for it. (Whether you forgive me or not, I don't manage our blog site, but I guess they'll be some discussions. ;-) )

hitekker 10y ago

I sincerely dislike it when the mods change the positions of comments in a thread.