11 ms·

PLT Scheme being renamed to PLT Racket

82 points by JoelMcCracken 17y ago

zephjc 17y ago
Is this some sort of early April Fools joke?
- aerique 17y ago
  If it isn't they could've picked a better date for the announcement.
- masterponomo 17y ago
  I would have preferred PLT Parrot, but Racket will do.
  - ekiru 17y ago
    If preventing confusion is one's goal, using a name which includes the name of an existing VM is not the best choice.
    - masterponomo 17y ago
      It was a joking reference to the Parrot announcement, which started as an April Fool's joke about a merger of Perl and Python but which led to the Parrot VM (the One VM to Rule Them All).
- apgwoz 17y ago
  No. http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-dev/2010-February/002233.html http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-dev/2010-February/002...
  - JoelMcCracken 17y ago
    Gah. now I feel bad. I didn't know about this.
icey 17y ago
It looks to me as though they're opening the doors to extend Scheme beyond RxRS specifications. Or am I misreading their press release?
- Kototama 17y ago
  They already do.
  - icey 17y ago
    Ah, then that explains the name change for me.
- zosi 17y ago
  You are. They already have a dialect of Scheme that contains many extensions beyond the RxRS specs, this is just giving it a name so that people stop confusing "PLT's dialect of Scheme" with "Scheme in general". Personally, I'm not a big fan of the name "Racket", because it makes me think of tennis rather than racketeering. However, I do support the idea of having a PLT "brand" rather than a hodgepodge of names like DrScheme, MrEd and mzscheme.
  - apgwoz 17y ago
    racket n. an illegal or dishonest scheme Makes perfect sense.
    - jcl 17y ago
      Makes sense, but I'm not sure I like the way it's headed. Scheme is so named due to a Lisp system called Planner. "Scheme" and "Planner" (and, I suppose, "Gambit") have mostly neutral connotations. "Swindle", "Larceny", "Heist", and now "Racket" are obviously criminal. It's not a good direction, PR-wise. You end up with people having to justify to their bosses why they want to use something called Racket for work, or justifying to parents why their kids are learning Racket in schools. (And then there's the inevitable analogy: Python : Pythonista :: Racket : Racketeer)
lispm 17y ago
why not rename 'PLT' too? 'Higher-Order Internet Technology', 'HIT Racket'. Not sure if names like Scheme, Racket and Swindle attract the right people...
- rsheridan6 17y ago
  And what kind of people does Stalin (a Scheme compiler) attract? I shudder to think.
pellicle 17y ago
Sounds like a great idea. My understanding is that PLT Scheme goes way beyond R5 (even R6), and with the new "R7" dual standard on the way, better to change the name now rather than later and be potentially confused with the upcoming R7 "big" Scheme.
signa11 17y ago
ponzi, would be just too cute perhaps ?
- masterponomo 17y ago
  That's a winner:-) Made me think of Risky, but Ponzi is better.
joeld42 17y ago
Nice move. Names matter. I like it.
evanrmurphy 17y ago
Old executables, web sites, mailing addresses, and module names will forward to the new ones. We will work to make the transition as painless as possible and to preserve old references for as long as possible. So folks using Arc can probably expect mzscheme -f as.scm to still be supported for some time.
- blasdel 17y ago
  Doesn't Arc require you to use a version of mzscheme from 2007?
  - zitterbewegung 17y ago
    Yea your right it won't really change arc anyways. pg hasn't ported it to not use set-car! etc...
  - evanrmurphy 17y ago
    not since arc 3.1 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254
    - WalterGR 17y ago
      Wow. http://arclanguage.org/install http://arclanguage.org/install should really be updated then.
zitterbewegung 17y ago
Why can't they be like clojure and pick a name that isn't overloaded by everything else...
- zephjc 17y ago
  'PLT Scheme' to just 'Skeem'?
  - msg 17y ago
    Say this paragraph out loud: I don't use Gambit, I use Skeem. Yes, I know Gambit is Scheme. Skeem is also Scheme, just a different Scheme.
- lispm 17y ago
  yeah, take a name like 'Clojure" that sounds like Clozure, the company that maintains OpenMCL, now Clozure Common Lisp
swannodette 17y ago
I've been using Clojure a lot and have been lamenting the fact that Clojure, while great for building applications isn't great for shell scripting. Racket may be just the tool I reach for when I can't write it in Clojure. 2010 looks like it's going to be a great year for Lisp.
mark_l_watson 17y ago
Strange name change, but a good programming environment (although I more frequently use Emacs+Gambit-C Scheme because I like being able to effortlessly build small compiled applications - harder to do in PLT Scheme). I look forward to the Racket release this summer.
flatline 17y ago
Kind of like naming something with the word "hacker", it could be something good or something bad. The "News" bit of "Hacker News" adds context that makes it seem legit, even if you initially take "Hacker" as something negative. There is no implicit context for "PLT Racket". Just my $.02, but it's not a good choice of names.
blahedo 17y ago
The entire text of http://www.plt-racket.org/ http://www.plt-racket.org/: Expected release date: Summer 2010 Ummm...?
- jcl 17y ago
  There used to be several paragraphs, e.g. explaining the choice of name, but it's been taken down. I guess this wasn't the launch they were hoping for.
whyenot 17y ago
Why not Ratchet instead of Racket. Then you could rename DrScheme to NurseRatchet... :)
boskone 17y ago
I've stated in the past the _only_ thing wrong with PLT Scheme was not enough marketing. PLT Racket is as evolved beyond standard Scheme as modern man from Australopithecus. So many rich areas of study are available for exploration. Just some of the capabilities, not toy, but full robust capabilities, include: - Lazy - Functional - Reactive - OO - Macros (powerful, hygenic) - Delimited continuations - Module system (dynamic) Not too mention the basics, eye opening approaches to XML and Web, an IDE, debugger, contracts, typed/dynamic language, jit, Android development, ... and on and on. The talent of the core PLT group is outstanding. Matthias Felleisen for example was awarded an ACM Fellowship in 2006 for contributions to programming languages and development environments. His academic publications are right up there with the best out there, yet he spends as much time focused on the foundational aspects of teaching kids, and students as high brow papers, and the real world demands of programming. And the rest the core are not too shabby either. IMHO, there are currently only 2 top tier active hotspots where the cool theoretical meets with the practical and usable in programming language theory, the Haskell and PLT ecospheres. Scala, and Closure would be next. Don't listen to the wingnuts comedy central wannabe's cracking poor puns here about schemes and rackets (well laugh at the good ones). In all seriousness, if you are at that point where you've stumbled onto the fact that there is a whole world beyond Java, Cobol, C and C++ and are having fun exploring Smalltalk, SML, OCaml, Haskell, Scala, Closure et al, do not skip, repeat, do not skip exploring PLT Racket. It is as rich, and deep and mind altering as any of them.
wingo 17y ago
This makes me sad. PLT folk are great Scheme researchers and practitioners; now I fear their work and conversations will turn ever-more inward. OTOH I can't blame them for wanting to leave the current Scheme governance story behind.

82 points by JoelMcCracken 17y ago

zephjc 17y ago

Is this some sort of early April Fools joke?

aerique 17y ago
If it isn't they could've picked a better date for the announcement.
masterponomo 17y ago
I would have preferred PLT Parrot, but Racket will do.
- ekiru 17y ago
  If preventing confusion is one's goal, using a name which includes the name of an existing VM is not the best choice.
  - masterponomo 17y ago
    It was a joking reference to the Parrot announcement, which started as an April Fool's joke about a merger of Perl and Python but which led to the Parrot VM (the One VM to Rule Them All).
apgwoz 17y ago
No. http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-dev/2010-February/002233.html http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-dev/2010-February/002...
- JoelMcCracken 17y ago
  Gah. now I feel bad. I didn't know about this.

icey 17y ago

It looks to me as though they're opening the doors to extend Scheme beyond RxRS specifications. Or am I misreading their press release?

Kototama 17y ago
They already do.
- icey 17y ago
  Ah, then that explains the name change for me.
zosi 17y ago
You are. They already have a dialect of Scheme that contains many extensions beyond the RxRS specs, this is just giving it a name so that people stop confusing "PLT's dialect of Scheme" with "Scheme in general". Personally, I'm not a big fan of the name "Racket", because it makes me think of tennis rather than racketeering. However, I do support the idea of having a PLT "brand" rather than a hodgepodge of names like DrScheme, MrEd and mzscheme.
- apgwoz 17y ago
  racket n. an illegal or dishonest scheme Makes perfect sense.
  - jcl 17y ago
    Makes sense, but I'm not sure I like the way it's headed. Scheme is so named due to a Lisp system called Planner. "Scheme" and "Planner" (and, I suppose, "Gambit") have mostly neutral connotations. "Swindle", "Larceny", "Heist", and now "Racket" are obviously criminal. It's not a good direction, PR-wise. You end up with people having to justify to their bosses why they want to use something called Racket for work, or justifying to parents why their kids are learning Racket in schools. (And then there's the inevitable analogy: Python : Pythonista :: Racket : Racketeer)

lispm 17y ago

why not rename 'PLT' too? 'Higher-Order Internet Technology', 'HIT Racket'. Not sure if names like Scheme, Racket and Swindle attract the right people...

rsheridan6 17y ago
And what kind of people does Stalin (a Scheme compiler) attract? I shudder to think.

pellicle 17y ago

Sounds like a great idea. My understanding is that PLT Scheme goes way beyond R5 (even R6), and with the new "R7" dual standard on the way, better to change the name now rather than later and be potentially confused with the upcoming R7 "big" Scheme.

signa11 17y ago

ponzi, would be just too cute perhaps ?

masterponomo 17y ago
That's a winner:-) Made me think of Risky, but Ponzi is better.

joeld42 17y ago

Nice move. Names matter. I like it.

evanrmurphy 17y ago

Old executables, web sites, mailing addresses, and module names will forward to the new ones. We will work to make the transition as painless as possible and to preserve old references for as long as possible. So folks using Arc can probably expect mzscheme -f as.scm to still be supported for some time.

blasdel 17y ago
Doesn't Arc require you to use a version of mzscheme from 2007?
- zitterbewegung 17y ago
  Yea your right it won't really change arc anyways. pg hasn't ported it to not use set-car! etc...
- evanrmurphy 17y ago
  not since arc 3.1 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254
  - WalterGR 17y ago
    Wow. http://arclanguage.org/install http://arclanguage.org/install should really be updated then.

zitterbewegung 17y ago

Why can't they be like clojure and pick a name that isn't overloaded by everything else...

zephjc 17y ago
'PLT Scheme' to just 'Skeem'?
- msg 17y ago
  Say this paragraph out loud: I don't use Gambit, I use Skeem. Yes, I know Gambit is Scheme. Skeem is also Scheme, just a different Scheme.
lispm 17y ago
yeah, take a name like 'Clojure" that sounds like Clozure, the company that maintains OpenMCL, now Clozure Common Lisp

swannodette 17y ago

I've been using Clojure a lot and have been lamenting the fact that Clojure, while great for building applications isn't great for shell scripting. Racket may be just the tool I reach for when I can't write it in Clojure. 2010 looks like it's going to be a great year for Lisp.

mark_l_watson 17y ago

Strange name change, but a good programming environment (although I more frequently use Emacs+Gambit-C Scheme because I like being able to effortlessly build small compiled applications - harder to do in PLT Scheme). I look forward to the Racket release this summer.

flatline 17y ago

Kind of like naming something with the word "hacker", it could be something good or something bad. The "News" bit of "Hacker News" adds context that makes it seem legit, even if you initially take "Hacker" as something negative. There is no implicit context for "PLT Racket". Just my $.02, but it's not a good choice of names.

blahedo 17y ago

The entire text of http://www.plt-racket.org/ http://www.plt-racket.org/: Expected release date: Summer 2010 Ummm...?

jcl 17y ago
There used to be several paragraphs, e.g. explaining the choice of name, but it's been taken down. I guess this wasn't the launch they were hoping for.

whyenot 17y ago

Why not Ratchet instead of Racket. Then you could rename DrScheme to NurseRatchet... :)

boskone 17y ago

I've stated in the past the _only_ thing wrong with PLT Scheme was not enough marketing. PLT Racket is as evolved beyond standard Scheme as modern man from Australopithecus. So many rich areas of study are available for exploration. Just some of the capabilities, not toy, but full robust capabilities, include: - Lazy - Functional - Reactive - OO - Macros (powerful, hygenic) - Delimited continuations - Module system (dynamic) Not too mention the basics, eye opening approaches to XML and Web, an IDE, debugger, contracts, typed/dynamic language, jit, Android development, ... and on and on. The talent of the core PLT group is outstanding. Matthias Felleisen for example was awarded an ACM Fellowship in 2006 for contributions to programming languages and development environments. His academic publications are right up there with the best out there, yet he spends as much time focused on the foundational aspects of teaching kids, and students as high brow papers, and the real world demands of programming. And the rest the core are not too shabby either. IMHO, there are currently only 2 top tier active hotspots where the cool theoretical meets with the practical and usable in programming language theory, the Haskell and PLT ecospheres. Scala, and Closure would be next. Don't listen to the wingnuts comedy central wannabe's cracking poor puns here about schemes and rackets (well laugh at the good ones). In all seriousness, if you are at that point where you've stumbled onto the fact that there is a whole world beyond Java, Cobol, C and C++ and are having fun exploring Smalltalk, SML, OCaml, Haskell, Scala, Closure et al, do not skip, repeat, do not skip exploring PLT Racket. It is as rich, and deep and mind altering as any of them.

wingo 17y ago

This makes me sad. PLT folk are great Scheme researchers and practitioners; now I fear their work and conversations will turn ever-more inward. OTOH I can't blame them for wanting to leave the current Scheme governance story behind.