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Opiate addiction is a serious problem that affects people from all walks of life. My mother has had rheumatoid arthritis for decades. She was prescribed Fent

Opiate addiction is a serious problem that affects people from all walks of life. My mother has had rheumatoid arthritis for decades. She was prescribed Fentanyl patches for the pain at one point, but the strength was too high. One day she wound up passing out in her kitchen after applying a patch. After that she stuck the patches in a drawer, intending for them to never to be used again. She was fine after this incident, but my sister happened to mention the story to an acquaintance of my mother's from church. Upon learning that there was a box of unused Fentanyl patches in my mother's house, she suddenly became her best friend and volunteered to begin taking her to doctor's appointments. She would take her to doctor's appointments, then while my mother was there, would go back to my mother's house to "clean up" - do dishes, vacuum etc. This wasn't a mere act of charity; she also "cleaned up" not only the patches, but a significant percentage of my mom's other opioid pain medications. At first my mother thought she was going crazy when pills began going missing. She finally told me about it, and while I was inclined to believe that she was simply starting to lose her mental acuity, I bought her a lockbox for her pills. It was only after this woman (an upper middle class mother of three young children) brought tools with her during a visit and actually destroyed the electronic lock on the box that I realized that her trusted "friend" from church was stealing her pain medications. When my mother told one of the leaders of her church what happened, the woman denied it, and three weeks later moved her entire family several states away. You really can't make this stuff up. Addicts come in all shapes and sizes and will do anything to quench their addiction.

MichaelGG 10y ago
If someone was suffering from pain and couldn't even buy Ibuprofen due to an oppressive government and shitty societal view, one might not be surprised if they steal to get life-changing medicine. The fact a "normal" person would rob an older woman for an essential medicine should reflect more on the society than the patient.
- downandout 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure the only pain she was suffering from was that of not having enough drugs in her system at any given time.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    And that's not legitimate? Withdrawal is probably one of the worst physical experiences someone can go through. On top of that, do you know why she was on the medication in the first place? Would you have the same attitude if she was taking SSRIs for depression, couldn't afford them (or wasn't allowed to have them!), and stole them instead?
    - downandout 10y ago
      I don't know all of the details as to how she became addicted to them, but it certainly wasn't a financial issue. Her husband owned a chain of auto body shops and was by all accounts worth at least a few million dollars.
      - MichaelGG 10y ago
        So the predicate "wasn't allowed" is even more accurate. She was prohibited, legally, to get properly labelled medication. Again, would you have the same attitude if her options for depression were "steal SSRIs from a pharma company" or "buy from someone that gets unlabeled, unmonitored shit from China, resold by whoever?"
        random_rr 10y ago
        There are better times to argue for legalization. You're trying too hard to make a point of this. Junkies sometimes do shitty stuff.
        MichaelGG 10y ago
        Legalization would avoid the shitty stuff part of junkies, for the most part. Or at least mitigate it to a huge extent, since costs would go down. Oxycodone, for instance, goes for about 30-100x on the street than at a grocery store. If gas was 50x more expensive, we'd probably see some desperate behaviour for a while.
- vonklaus 10y ago
  That doesn't make any sense. Having seen a fair amount of shit, I go back and forth. Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. This isn't a headache, that is theft. Clearly, there is a difference between opportunistically taking a few pills and working your way into someones life to rob them repeatedly. This reflects on the person and while I don't know if I made up my mind, I can certainly intellectually understand why society has banned this.
  - encoderer 10y ago
    Addiction is way less harmful if it's legal. Clean needles, consistent dosages, better healthcare, no stealing/theft/lying/etc. If it's legal it's just a physical dependence. Other physical dependencies we have include: food, water, and air and we manage those OK. I agree, heroin is nasty stuff. But, we cannot eradicate it. In a free and liberal society, it's a farce that it's even a choice. It's a choice between denial and acceptance of reality. Accept it, lean in, fix things in a way that goes with the grain of human nature, not against it. (E.g. it's human nature to assume harm won't befall them so they are not dissuaded from a harmful thing. So, reduce the harm as much as you can.)
    - knucklesandwich 10y ago
      I'm generally in favor of some form of legalization, but I feel like this conversation has a tendency to become very hand-wavy and legalization can be overly evangelized as a panacea for systemic problems related to addiction. Firstly, what does legalization mean? Legal to prescribe? Legal to purchase over the counter after a certain age? Full, unrestricted legality? In weaker forms of these I think there's a case to be made that a black market doesn't disappear, but perhaps changes its business model. There's still benefits to be gained, in terms of more safety to addicts from impurities, but it seems difficult to claim that you can really control an addicts dosage when a black market can arise to meet their wants for higher dosages. I don't think we should criminalize addiction directly, but I think that's really only part of the picture. Part of the troubles of being an addict stem from stigmatization. We need to evolve from seeing addicts as degenerates and liars and instead as people suffering. We need a social climate that encourages addicts to seek help without social or criminal penalties. We need more addiction treatment programs, and we need treatment programs that don't impose their own judgements about getting clean through substitute drugs. We probably need to have lesser penalties for crimes that may be related to addiction (i.e. petty theft to pay for an addiction) or else we're simply criminalizing the addict in another way.
kilroy123 10y ago
My sister is a heroine addict. Addiction does do crazy things and destroys lives. She went from being a beautiful model living abroad, to a lying junkie. She is constantly trying to hustle money from people. No job, no car, no money, and nothing going on. She now has a serious heart condition and a pacemaker. Not even 30 years old yet.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Its fates like this, which scream for a pragmatic approach. If you cant cure somebody, at least give him a dignified way to exist on. Enough to avoid the with drawl symptoms and a way to work.

MichaelGG 10y ago

If someone was suffering from pain and couldn't even buy Ibuprofen due to an oppressive government and shitty societal view, one might not be surprised if they steal to get life-changing medicine. The fact a "normal" person would rob an older woman for an essential medicine should reflect more on the society than the patient.

downandout 10y ago
I'm pretty sure the only pain she was suffering from was that of not having enough drugs in her system at any given time.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  And that's not legitimate? Withdrawal is probably one of the worst physical experiences someone can go through. On top of that, do you know why she was on the medication in the first place? Would you have the same attitude if she was taking SSRIs for depression, couldn't afford them (or wasn't allowed to have them!), and stole them instead?
  - downandout 10y ago
    I don't know all of the details as to how she became addicted to them, but it certainly wasn't a financial issue. Her husband owned a chain of auto body shops and was by all accounts worth at least a few million dollars.
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      So the predicate "wasn't allowed" is even more accurate. She was prohibited, legally, to get properly labelled medication. Again, would you have the same attitude if her options for depression were "steal SSRIs from a pharma company" or "buy from someone that gets unlabeled, unmonitored shit from China, resold by whoever?"
      - random_rr 10y ago
        There are better times to argue for legalization. You're trying too hard to make a point of this. Junkies sometimes do shitty stuff.
        MichaelGG 10y ago
        Legalization would avoid the shitty stuff part of junkies, for the most part. Or at least mitigate it to a huge extent, since costs would go down. Oxycodone, for instance, goes for about 30-100x on the street than at a grocery store. If gas was 50x more expensive, we'd probably see some desperate behaviour for a while.
vonklaus 10y ago
That doesn't make any sense. Having seen a fair amount of shit, I go back and forth. Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. This isn't a headache, that is theft. Clearly, there is a difference between opportunistically taking a few pills and working your way into someones life to rob them repeatedly. This reflects on the person and while I don't know if I made up my mind, I can certainly intellectually understand why society has banned this.
- encoderer 10y ago
  Addiction is way less harmful if it's legal. Clean needles, consistent dosages, better healthcare, no stealing/theft/lying/etc. If it's legal it's just a physical dependence. Other physical dependencies we have include: food, water, and air and we manage those OK. I agree, heroin is nasty stuff. But, we cannot eradicate it. In a free and liberal society, it's a farce that it's even a choice. It's a choice between denial and acceptance of reality. Accept it, lean in, fix things in a way that goes with the grain of human nature, not against it. (E.g. it's human nature to assume harm won't befall them so they are not dissuaded from a harmful thing. So, reduce the harm as much as you can.)
  - knucklesandwich 10y ago
    I'm generally in favor of some form of legalization, but I feel like this conversation has a tendency to become very hand-wavy and legalization can be overly evangelized as a panacea for systemic problems related to addiction. Firstly, what does legalization mean? Legal to prescribe? Legal to purchase over the counter after a certain age? Full, unrestricted legality? In weaker forms of these I think there's a case to be made that a black market doesn't disappear, but perhaps changes its business model. There's still benefits to be gained, in terms of more safety to addicts from impurities, but it seems difficult to claim that you can really control an addicts dosage when a black market can arise to meet their wants for higher dosages. I don't think we should criminalize addiction directly, but I think that's really only part of the picture. Part of the troubles of being an addict stem from stigmatization. We need to evolve from seeing addicts as degenerates and liars and instead as people suffering. We need a social climate that encourages addicts to seek help without social or criminal penalties. We need more addiction treatment programs, and we need treatment programs that don't impose their own judgements about getting clean through substitute drugs. We probably need to have lesser penalties for crimes that may be related to addiction (i.e. petty theft to pay for an addiction) or else we're simply criminalizing the addict in another way.

kilroy123 10y ago

My sister is a heroine addict. Addiction does do crazy things and destroys lives. She went from being a beautiful model living abroad, to a lying junkie. She is constantly trying to hustle money from people. No job, no car, no money, and nothing going on. She now has a serious heart condition and a pacemaker. Not even 30 years old yet.

Pica_soO 10y ago
Its fates like this, which scream for a pragmatic approach. If you cant cure somebody, at least give him a dignified way to exist on. Enough to avoid the with drawl symptoms and a way to work.