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Has any entrepreneur or business ever been excited about becoming a commodity? It's a vicious market type with razor thin profit margins, high risk, and short l

Has any entrepreneur or business ever been excited about becoming a commodity? It's a vicious market type with razor thin profit margins, high risk, and short lived success. See airlines and DRAM manufacturing. As consumers we like it, but I don't think there's anything redeeming about it from the business's point of view. Heck, step #1 in the business playbook is "differentiate".

vinceguidry 10y ago
Market players in real commodity markets have a raft of financial instruments that squeeze out the risk. It's probably one of the least risky ways to make money there is. The telcos already have the commodity aspect of their business handled. AT&T and Verizon aren't going anywhere. They just want to line their pockets. Demand is fixed in a commodity market. The world only needs so much wheat and there's not much you can do to make it need more. So you sell your wheat in a fancy new package. That's essentially what a cable network is. The label on your can of green beans.
- eru 10y ago
  > The world only needs so much wheat and there's not much you can do to make it need more. People can eat wheat or meat. You can make meat from wheat. Lots of poor people are happy to eat more meat (or any meat at all), if the price comes down. Demand for wheat is elastic.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    > Lots of poor people are happy to eat more meat (or any meat at all), if the price comes down. Sure, but what makes the price come down? Industrial production is absolutely aimed at ensuring a solid, steady supply. Sharp fluctuations are rare, and are usually due to political upheaval. Prices might spike, but they rarely drop dramatically, because technological advances that lead to increased supply are usually already priced into the market. It's like that with any commodity market. There are so many people's lives and pocketbooks relying on stability in production and pricing that checks are built right into the market at every level, from production to end-consumer purchasing. Speculators lose their shirts in commodity markets because they aren't established players, they're gamblers. That gives the segment the illusion of being way more volatility than there really is. Everybody else is insulated very well from random shocks.
    - eru 10y ago
      I was arguing against "The world only needs so much wheat and there's not much you can do to make it need more." If there's more wheat (and the price drops), the economy will consume more---even if people won't eat more wheat directly.
yuhong 10y ago
Of course, it is even worse if you can't, which is why for example I wonder what would have happened if Intel bought Compaq back in 1991.
1_2__3 10y ago
Please stop the meme of airlines being unprofitable. Airlines are a shell game between companies, where the industry thrives but I individual companies buy and sell each other (notice none of these supposedly unprofitable airlines ever seem to fail, just get bought - odd, that). Also 2 of the fortune 100 are airlines. Airlines make everyone involved piles of cash. It just turns out they are able to screw over customers more and get more government cash of they complain relentlessly about their massive, global industry being just oh so hard to make any money in.
hollerith 10y ago
Exxon's in a commodity business, and they're not in danger of going out of business for lack of investor interest.

vinceguidry 10y ago

Market players in real commodity markets have a raft of financial instruments that squeeze out the risk. It's probably one of the least risky ways to make money there is. The telcos already have the commodity aspect of their business handled. AT&T and Verizon aren't going anywhere. They just want to line their pockets. Demand is fixed in a commodity market. The world only needs so much wheat and there's not much you can do to make it need more. So you sell your wheat in a fancy new package. That's essentially what a cable network is. The label on your can of green beans.

eru 10y ago
> The world only needs so much wheat and there's not much you can do to make it need more. People can eat wheat or meat. You can make meat from wheat. Lots of poor people are happy to eat more meat (or any meat at all), if the price comes down. Demand for wheat is elastic.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  > Lots of poor people are happy to eat more meat (or any meat at all), if the price comes down. Sure, but what makes the price come down? Industrial production is absolutely aimed at ensuring a solid, steady supply. Sharp fluctuations are rare, and are usually due to political upheaval. Prices might spike, but they rarely drop dramatically, because technological advances that lead to increased supply are usually already priced into the market. It's like that with any commodity market. There are so many people's lives and pocketbooks relying on stability in production and pricing that checks are built right into the market at every level, from production to end-consumer purchasing. Speculators lose their shirts in commodity markets because they aren't established players, they're gamblers. That gives the segment the illusion of being way more volatility than there really is. Everybody else is insulated very well from random shocks.
  - eru 10y ago
    I was arguing against "The world only needs so much wheat and there's not much you can do to make it need more." If there's more wheat (and the price drops), the economy will consume more---even if people won't eat more wheat directly.

yuhong 10y ago

Of course, it is even worse if you can't, which is why for example I wonder what would have happened if Intel bought Compaq back in 1991.

1_2__3 10y ago

Please stop the meme of airlines being unprofitable. Airlines are a shell game between companies, where the industry thrives but I individual companies buy and sell each other (notice none of these supposedly unprofitable airlines ever seem to fail, just get bought - odd, that). Also 2 of the fortune 100 are airlines. Airlines make everyone involved piles of cash. It just turns out they are able to screw over customers more and get more government cash of they complain relentlessly about their massive, global industry being just oh so hard to make any money in.

hollerith 10y ago

Exxon's in a commodity business, and they're not in danger of going out of business for lack of investor interest.